At last England are playing as a TEAM...

[Pavilionaire]

The key for Capello will be striking the right mix between starting the kids - and thereby dampening the media expectation which so often stifles the players - and harnessing the quality of the superstars.

I think he has to ditch Glen Johnson, Rio, Terry, Lampard and Gerrard in favour of Walker, Jones, Cahill, Parker and Rodwell. I'd keep Ashley Cole and Rooney.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Anyhow I reckon that privately there is alot of pressure from sponsors, FA etc to play the "marquee" players wherever and whenever possible. And until thats resolved we will always be relative also rans.

 

[Simster]

We're generally one of the best 8 teams in the world, so quarters is usually our level. Simple as that. Don't see the need for the massive negativity when realistically we generally hit our level.

According to wikipedia, we are actually far better than that. From 1970 to 2011:

Rank Country Average Elo rating
1 Brazil 2009.9
2 Germany[3] 1972.0
3 Italy 1925.3
4 England 1922.5
5 Netherlands 1920.7
6 Argentina 1898.8
7 Spain 1898.0
8 France 1883.5
9 Russia[4] 1853.7
10 Czech Republic[5] 1837.2

And decade by decade:

Strongest football nations by Elo Ratings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To be honest, we do have the finance and infrastructure to suggest as much. I think the real problem is that people can see us being left behind for several reasons.
Plus of course, there is a suspicion that certain players down the years have believed the hype from the red tops. Yet you only have to look at the way we crumple at most tournaments in the latter stages to see the truth, and we haven't won anything since 1966.

 

[Mellotron]

I don't disagree with any of that, Sim. But I think once the whistle blows for the start of a game, forget all of that and for the 90 minutes get behind your country. No?

I have no issue with people dissecting why it's going wrong, and wanting to put that right. But I don't see how being overly negative of the team ON the pitch during the game is going to affect any of that.

 

[Common as Mook]

I don't disagree with any of that, Sim. But I think once the whistle blows for the start of a game, forget all of that and for the 90 minutes get behind your country. No?

I have no issue with people dissecting why it's going wrong, and wanting to put that right. But I don't see how being overly negative of the team ON the pitch during the game is going to affect any of that.

Quite.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

People have been on Lampard's back for years, but it's now getting to the point where people are starting to see that Gerrard isn't the be all and end all either.

England have achieved nothing with him in the side, he must be 30 odd now, and is still constantly injured. He hasn't had a decent run of form for Liverpool for a couple of years at least, so on that basis alone, unless he has an outstanding second half of the season, he will be lucky to be picked.

Knowing how these things tend to work, of course, I'm sure he will be picked. Shouldn't be an automatic choice now though. I'm not suggesting he's never been good, just that he in no way justifies his place these days.

 

[terryberry1]

People often fear for the future of the English game. Well I don't buy into it. We are full of young talent, they just don't get the opportunities. Having such a shit World Cup last year was a blessing in disguise. It's forced Postman Pat into making changes. The last week has shown that there is room for optimism. Rodwell, Walker, Jones, Cahill, Welbeck, Sturidge are all quality young players who will only get better. Add to that the players who are still coming through like Oxlaide-Chamberlain, josh mceachran and even our own Lewis Dunk. Our future look's pretty good to me. We have always had the players. They just need that chance to show what they can do

 

[Simon Morgan]

Over the last 2 games what I will say is that there has been a bit of thought going into things i.e. knew we weren't going to out-football Spain so found a way to try and stop them from playing. The day we realise that we are not Barcelona and that we can win things possibly playing a bit ugly rather than just turning up then we will improve with this crop of players. This doesn't change the fact that grassroots football in England is an area with much work to be done.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

I'm afraid this is likely to be the case.

We can win without Rooney and Gerrard in the side, both of whom can be utter liabilities at the highest level. Time to play the less talented but more intelligent replacements, IMO.

So, what makes you think that after seeing these 'less talented but more intelligent' players in 2 friendly games means they won't be utter liabilites at the highest level ?

what exactly do you base that on ?

 

[Storer 68]

People often fear for the future of the English game. Well I don't buy into it. We are full of young talent, they just don't get the opportunities. Having such a shit World Cup last year was a blessing in disguise. It's forced Postman Pat into making changes. The last week has shown that there is room for optimism. Rodwell, Walker, Jones, Cahill, Welbeck, Sturidge are all quality young players who will only get better. Add to that the players who are still coming through like Oxlaide-Chamberlain, josh mceachran and even our own Lewis Dunk. Our future look's pretty good to me. We have always had the players. They just need that chance to show what they can do

well we all thought that about the so called "Golden generation" which conspicuously failed to answer all the meaningful questions set.

and they've ALL had the opportinity to "show what they can do"

and what they HAVE done is always lose on penalties in the quarter finals.

I beleive JACK SHIT is ready to be lined up to succeed Capello

 

[Simster]

So, what makes you think that after seeing these 'less talented but more intelligent' players in 2 friendly games means they won't be utter liabilites at the highest level ?

Is there a higher level than playing the current World and European champions Phill.

 

[Storer 68]

Err yes.

playing them in competitve games that actuallt mean something, rather than pointless friendlies where both teams are completey changed at half time

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

Is there a higher level than playing the current World and European champions Phill.

yup, playing them in tournament football. I don't think even you can argue that ?

 

[Simster]

People often fear for the future of the English game. Well I don't buy into it. We are full of young talent, they just don't get the opportunities. Having such a shit World Cup last year was a blessing in disguise. It's forced Postman Pat into making changes. The last week has shown that there is room for optimism. Rodwell, Walker, Jones, Cahill, Welbeck, Sturidge are all quality young players who will only get better. Add to that the players who are still coming through like Oxlaide-Chamberlain, josh mceachran and even our own Lewis Dunk. Our future look's pretty good to me. We have always had the players. They just need that chance to show what they can do

Point of order. The World Cup is the pinnacle of the international game. There is no bigger sporting stage, except arguably the Olympics.

So being shit in the World Cup can NEVER be called "a blessing in disguise". That's the stage you WANT your side to excel on. I'd much rather he'd picked his side of has beens and actually performed above expectations.

 

[Simster]

yup, playing them in tournament football. I don't think even you can argue that ?

Ok, fair enough. But it's you who is arguing over nothing.

All I've said is that Rooney and Gerrard are liabilities at the highest level. That's not to say that others won't be, but given that some of the others just beat Spain in a friendly, they are certainly worth a PUNT.

 

[Commander]

People have been on Lampard's back for years, but it's now getting to the point where people are starting to see that Gerrard isn't the be all and end all either.

England have achieved nothing with him in the side, he must be 30 odd now, and is still constantly injured. He hasn't had a decent run of form for Liverpool for a couple of years at least, so on that basis alone, unless he has an outstanding second half of the season, he will be lucky to be picked.

Knowing how these things tend to work, of course, I'm sure he will be picked. Shouldn't be an automatic choice now though. I'm not suggesting he's never been good, just that he in no way justifies his place these days.

This is the thing though. Lampard and Gerrard would be in the SQUAD of just about every other national side in the world. They are both very, very good players. But why do they have to be absolute certs to start like they always are for England? As squad players, both Gerrard and Lampard are superb options to have. When we play both of them and it doesn't work, we don't really have any options to bring someone on to change the game. There is no plan b. Rodwell, for example, looks a decent player, but I cant imagine Spain quaking in their boots when we bring him on with 20 minutes to go and we need a goal. However, bringing Gerrard on at that point, is a different story. Hopefully Fabio has finally worked this out now.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

Ok, fair enough. But it's you who is arguing over nothing.

All I've said is that Rooney and Gerrard are liabilities at the highest level. That's not to say that others won't be, but given that some of the others just beat Spain in a friendly, they are certainly worth a PUNT.

Pathetic Sim......

 

[Simster]

Eh? Shit day Phill?

 

[Biscuit]

Two wins - let's not get too carried away.

The big positive for me is how brilliant Phil Jones has been in midfield. Quite impressed with him and only 19 ffs.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

Eh? Shit day Phill?

Nope, a brilliant day! enough time at work to post on NSC.

Just have the courage of your convictions. You say that Rooney and Gerrard are liabilities at the highest level and we should play the others, then you say that the others 'might' be liabilities aswell ? If I was a betting man Sim, I would go with the odds I know - i.e Gerrard and Rooney might f*** up 1 in 10 games.