[Football] Arsenal’s Ben White

[Kalimantan Gull]

So, yes, there is a core of experienced players, and Southgate has had to work with what's available as far as the rest of the squad is concerned. He has not been afraid to pick players in form (apart from Dunk, allegedly). Not sure what more he could do, really

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to be able to say England haven't won anything because he's done everything wrong (and England really are the best, like we all imagine is the case, since we invented the game, etc.). But when it comes to squad selection I can't find a pattern of cockwombelry there. Picking the right team on the day and communicating an effective game plan, that may be another story. That or we aren't as good as we think we are (despite inventing the game, etc.).

38 players in a single season? Plus 4 more added to the squad on the eve of the tournament. 42 men. That's way more than every Premier league side I'd wager, and England only played 10 games.

It doesnt scream settled side or consistency of selection does it. So don't be surprised if they fail to gel on the big day. I'll say again, what has the point of the last three years been?

 

[Springal]

just strange we are only country to name 33 players and can only presume with 3 sides due to play in finals he is concerned about injuries. Have no doubt if there was a big game tomorrow and short of CBs he would choose Dunk over White.

We have 12 players in the CL / EL finals + a few injuries. But agreed not really a fan of such a big squad, especially when Southgate a few months ago said he preferred 23 man squads not 26.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

38 players in a single season? Plus 4 more added to the squad on the eve of the tournament. 42 men. That's way more than every Premier league side I'd wager, and England only played 10 games.

It doesnt scream settled side or consistency of selection does it. So don't be surprised if they fail to gel on the big day. I'll say again, what has the point of the last three years been?

If it was to identify a best eleven and four gold plated stand ins, then it has been as good as it can be, taking form and fitness into account. If he'd kept picking the same 11 in the hope it would eventually come good via the process of gelling, he'd have been pilloried for that. And in any case I'm not sure I subscribe to the idea that the best team is the one that has been playing together for years.

Anyway we shall see. Like you I am not expecting us to rip up any bushes. Largely because Southgit does not seem to be a master tactician. Most of us will be able to predict at least 8 of the first starting 11, and I suspect several of us could give a better team talk.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

If it was to identify a best eleven and four gold plated stand ins, then it has been as good as it can be, taking form and fitness into account. If he'd kept picking the same 11 in the hope it would eventually come good via the process of gelling, he'd have been pilloried for that. And in any case I'm not sure I subscribe to the idea that the best team is the one that has been playing together for years.

Anyway we shall see. Like you I am not expecting us to rip up any bushes. Largely because Southgit does not seem to be a master tactician. Most of us will be able to predict at least 8 of the first starting 11, and I suspect several of us could give a better team talk.

The best team is always that which has been playing together for years. The France, Germany, Spain winning teams of the past 20 odd years were exactly that. You need the quality as well, but I can't even recall any exceptions, winning teams who were full of newcomers.

Same in other sports, our rugby World Cup winning team had been together for ages. Same with the cricket World cup team. They knew how to react when things went wrong, because they'd been there before and knew they could get out of it. Ditto the 2005 Ashes side, and compare to the continuous selection merrygoround of the 90s England sides. It's why the great Aussie cricket side kept on winning even from the most difficult positions.

Things will always get difficult at some point in a tournament, and that's when experience and settled sides are invaluable.

Remember Roys team v Iceland? However good the individuals were, they couldn't break them down as a team.

Southgates failings won't be tactical in my opinion, but his inability to choose a settled side, to be continuously swayed by the next bright thing on the block. The last guy to do this was Graham Taylor. For Carlton Palmer read James Ward-Prowse.

 

[Frankie]

I've no comprehension why Southgate would choose to leave Dunk out of that squad when Dunk is playing the best football of his life .

Goodness sake pick players that are in form not players you think may be ok in a couple of years time , what's the point in that ? The tournament is now .

Don't even get me started as to why he's included Mings , that's just ridiculous and frankly embarrassing.

I understand the inclusion of White but if he was chosen at Dunks expense I would say that is completely wrong as well .

I do feel for Dunk as he could do no more than he has , I just think the tug back on the Wolves player may have swayed Southgate rather than looking at Dunks season long contributions.

I'd like to think if I supported another team I'd still feel the same about Dunk , I'd definitely think the same about Mings , I'm not wishing the England team bad luck but Mings will allow all and sundry to get to the byeline and get the crosses in , I can't quite believe Southgate hasn't seen this weakness in his game add to that his poor passing from back to front , our group opponents will be rubbing their hands together with joy .

My ravings won't change anything but I know I won't be far off the mark if Mings starts .

 

[bhanutz]

Southgate should never have got the job full stop.

 

[blue-shifted]

Southgate should never have got the job full stop.

We'll have a better idea of whether this is true in 6 weeks time

 

[We're the Stripes]

Can anyone help me get my head round the 33 to 26 man squad cull in relation to next week's friendlies? The squad is due to be cut to 26 on 1st June, then we have preparation games vs Austria on Weds 2nd and Romania on Sunday 6th.

Given a load of City and Chelsea players aren't available due to their involvement in the CL final, am I right in thinking there's a strong chance Ben will feature in the preparation games even if he doesn't make the cut? Which would be a bit odd, but also quite welcome (if he does indeed miss out).

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Can anyone help me get my head round the 33 to 26 man squad cull in relation to next week's friendlies? The squad is due to be cut to 26 on 1st June, then we have preparation games vs Austria on Weds 2nd and Romania on Sunday 6th.

Given a load of City and Chelsea players aren't available due to their involvement in the CL final, am I right in thinking there's a strong chance Ben will feature in the preparation games even if he doesn't make the cut? Which would be a bit odd, but also quite welcome (if he does indeed miss out).

Isn’t the opposite true ? Ie if he is culled on the 1st June then he clearly won’t be available on the 2nd or 6th.

 

[We're the Stripes]

Isn’t the opposite true ? Ie if he is culled on the 1st June then he clearly won’t be available on the 2nd or 6th.

That's what I initially assumed but the absence of all the City and Chelsea players along with hearing Naylor talking on a podcast just now has thrown me.

Agree though that it wouldn't make much sense to have the culled 7 playing in "preparation games" for a tournament they won't be at.

 

[GT49er]

Isn’t the opposite true ? Ie if he is culled on the 1st June then he clearly won’t be available on the 2nd or 6th.

As they're friendlies I assume Southgate can play whoever he damn well likes, whether in the official squad for the Euros or not; the friendlies aren't part of the competition.

 

[SeagullinExile]

As they're friendlies I assume Southgate can play whoever he damn well likes, whether in the official squad for the Euros or not; the friendlies aren't part of the competition.

The friendlies are warm up games. No way will the cut players be involved. What's the point?

They'll be put on the standby list i'd imagine.

 

[boik]

Isn't the whole extended squad because he wasn't sure which Utd, City or Chelsea players might be injured playing in their finals?

 

[GT49er]

The friendlies are warm up games. No way will the cut players be involved. What's the point?

They'll be put on the standby list i'd imagine.

No, there's not a lot of point - just saying that he can if he wants to.

 

[Mellotron]

The friendlies are warm up games. No way will the cut players be involved. What's the point?

They'll be put on the standby list i'd imagine.

If Man United, Chelsea and Man City players aren't playing in them (and they aren't), that takes out;

Maguire
Shaw
Rashford
Greenwood
James
Mount
Chilwell
Foden
Walker
Stones
Foden
Sterling

Then if you take out the 7 on standby, that leaves 14 players (including 4 goalkeepers) to play the 2 friendlies....not ideal.

 

[Mellotron]

Isn't the whole extended squad because he wasn't sure which Utd, City or Chelsea players might be injured playing in their finals?

And late fitness calls on Philips, Maguire, Henderson, possibly Rashford too.

 

[Yoda]

I've no comprehension why Southgate would choose to leave Dunk out of that squad when Dunk is playing the best football of his life .

Goodness sake pick players that are in form not players you think may be ok in a couple of years time , what's the point in that ? The tournament is now .

I don't get his point on saying it's age either. He's only 29 FFS. A good top central defender can play at the top level into their mid 30's if they look after themselves (Maldini, Adams, Puyol, Matthaeus, Cannavaro, Vidic to name a few).

Lewis would only be 30 at next years World Cup and 32 at the next Euros. Can still get plenty of mileage out of him at international level.

 

[vagabond]

I don't get his point on saying it's age either. He's only 29 FFS. A good top central defender can play at the top level into their mid 30's if they look after themselves (Maldini, Adams, Puyol, Matthaeus, Cannavaro, Vidic to name a few).

Lewis would only be 30 at next years World Cup and 32 at the next Euros. Can still get plenty of mileage out of him at international level.

Southgate also compounded his confusing statement by later saying “Center backs are at their best when they’ve matured”.

 

[We're the Stripes]

And late fitness calls on Philips, Maguire, Henderson, possibly Rashford too.

Course - I'd not even factored in the injury doubts! (or United players)

Does sort of point towards White and co. getting a run out in the friendlies for the sake of numbers if nothing else.

 

[Mellotron]

Course - I'd not even factored in the injury doubts! (or United players)

Does sort of point towards White and co. getting a run out in the friendlies for the sake of numbers if nothing else.

I agree though - it will feel a bit odd possibly seeing White get his England debut just prior to a tournament we know he won't be at.