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Arctic ocean thaws..shit!
- Thread starter Bevendean Hillbilly
- Start date
ifuhatepalacestandup
New member
A Chilling Possibility
By disturbing a massive ocean current, melting Arctic sea ice might trigger colder weather in Europe and North America.
March 5, 2004: Global warming could plunge North America and Western Europe into a deep freeze, possibly within only a few decades.
That's the paradoxical scenario gaining credibility among many climate scientists. The thawing of sea ice covering the Arctic could disturb or even halt large currents in the Atlantic Ocean. Without the vast heat that these ocean currents deliver--comparable to the power generation of a million nuclear power plants--Europe's average temperature would likely drop 5 to 10°C (9 to 18°F), and parts of eastern North America would be chilled somewhat less. Such a dip in temperature would be similar to global average temperatures toward the end of the last ice age roughly 20,000 years ago.
Some scientists believe this shift in ocean currents could come surprisingly soon--within as little as 20 years, according to Robert Gagosian, president and director of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Others doubt it will happen at all. Even so, the Pentagon is taking notice. Andrew Marshall, a veteran Defense Department planner, recently released an unclassified report detailing how a shift in ocean currents in the near future could compromise national security.
"It's difficult to predict what will happen," cautions Donald Cavalieri, a senior scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, "because the Arctic and North Atlantic are very complex systems with many interactions between the land, the sea, and the atmosphere. But the facts do suggest that the changes we're seeing in the Arctic could potentially affect currents that warm Western Europe, and that's gotten a lot of people concerned."
Ice is Key
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
By disturbing a massive ocean current, melting Arctic sea ice might trigger colder weather in Europe and North America.
March 5, 2004: Global warming could plunge North America and Western Europe into a deep freeze, possibly within only a few decades.
That's the paradoxical scenario gaining credibility among many climate scientists. The thawing of sea ice covering the Arctic could disturb or even halt large currents in the Atlantic Ocean. Without the vast heat that these ocean currents deliver--comparable to the power generation of a million nuclear power plants--Europe's average temperature would likely drop 5 to 10°C (9 to 18°F), and parts of eastern North America would be chilled somewhat less. Such a dip in temperature would be similar to global average temperatures toward the end of the last ice age roughly 20,000 years ago.
Some scientists believe this shift in ocean currents could come surprisingly soon--within as little as 20 years, according to Robert Gagosian, president and director of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Others doubt it will happen at all. Even so, the Pentagon is taking notice. Andrew Marshall, a veteran Defense Department planner, recently released an unclassified report detailing how a shift in ocean currents in the near future could compromise national security.
"It's difficult to predict what will happen," cautions Donald Cavalieri, a senior scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, "because the Arctic and North Atlantic are very complex systems with many interactions between the land, the sea, and the atmosphere. But the facts do suggest that the changes we're seeing in the Arctic could potentially affect currents that warm Western Europe, and that's gotten a lot of people concerned."
Ice is Key
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
Last edited:
Two Professors
Two Mad Professors
Bring on the melt.My house is 460 ft above sea level!
SeagullSongs
And it's all gone quiet..
Ice is about 8% less dense than water, so potentially if all the ice melts, the ice will take up less volume as water and the sea levels will fall? 
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Ice is about 8% less dense than water, so potentially if all the ice melts, the ice will take up less volume as water and the sea levels will fall?
It's true. Pour yourself a glass of water, put two ice cubes in it and draw a line on the glass. When the ice has melted, the level will be lower.
Bevendean Hillbilly
New member
- Thread starter
- #27
On the other hand..unplug your freezer and funnel that water into your glass on top of your ice cubes. THEN heat up the glass so that the water expands...shit..wet espadrilles.
Gazwag
5 millionth post poster
They were in Brighton last January
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,851
yeah, the atlantic conveyor. the theory goes the sinking of water as it cools draws more warm water from the south, a model that seems to be well supported. however, the idea ignores or overlooks the North Alantic Ocean Gyre, which will cause the same current flows in the north atlantic, so the effect of the atlantic conveyor may very well be over-calculated.
I would put alot of weight on the very measured and cautious quote:
difficult to predict... complex system... facts suggest... could potentially... its not the langauge used in hard sciences is it? they simply dont really know for sure.
Bevendean Hillbilly
New member
- Thread starter
- #31
Well this is cheery. I have just finished watching a film called The Thaw. I take peak on here, and we are all going to die very soon and probably before we sign a striker
...The Day After Tomorrow...perhaps?
imminent
Vegas Seagull
New member
- Jul 10, 2009
- 7,782
We are all 90%? water so the extra billion or two people alive in 20 years should soak up a bit themselves & in their previously arid fields
The Spanish
Well-known member
everything's natural why is global warming and human polluting not 'natural', if we are just organisms. even the terminology is arrogant and totally bessoted with the idea that humans are 'special' in some way.
why are humans any different to any other species that experiences rapid and unsustainable short term population growth,with a sudden and dramatic effect on ecology before the population shrinks again and/or disappears. humans doing their thing is just a large scale version of a f***ing plague of locusts, if anyone genuinely thinks humanity has the wit or levels of alturism required to stop it f***ing itself up and returning to being just another species of ape clinging to survival once the whole thing comes crashing down, then they are deluded.
why are humans any different to any other species that experiences rapid and unsustainable short term population growth,with a sudden and dramatic effect on ecology before the population shrinks again and/or disappears. humans doing their thing is just a large scale version of a f***ing plague of locusts, if anyone genuinely thinks humanity has the wit or levels of alturism required to stop it f***ing itself up and returning to being just another species of ape clinging to survival once the whole thing comes crashing down, then they are deluded.
You already missed that.
Cool, I'd never thought of that.Ice is about 8% less dense than water, so potentially if all the ice melts, the ice will take up less volume as water and the sea levels will fall?
Like religion, it's to keep people fearful and control them. It's easy to convince people that we're bad and doing bad things to this gentle planet. Temperatures and CO2 levels change all the time and the changes haven't been any more dramatic in the last few hundred years. There's no proof that we're making any significant difference.
The Spanish
Well-known member
i just hate the f***ing babyishness of it all, people who drive their kids 1/2 a mile to school pretending to give a f*** about the environment. if you dont want to hurt the planet then live a low impact pastoral life. i really cant see any other viable alternative most of all this seems a massive exercise in self delusion and vanity. all this look we can have our cake and eat it if you just separate the stuff in your bins is total nonsense. no, live in a cave and get rid of 90% of human beings and you are on the right track. anything else aint really going to work its all very pampered and first world all this.
somerset
New member
This is the crux of the whole debate....
We are severely dependant on the gulf stream to keep us from freezing in Winter, real freezing like scandanavia and northern Russia. Ice melt is forecast to affect this current especially, but they cant predict quite how that will manifest itself in these islands. Popular theory is that we will see in the next 10 years a drop in average temperatures of 7-10 degrees. That might not sound much, but it will ensure we have snow, a lot of snow every year.
On the plus side, we may start winning some medals at the Winter Olympics in the next 25 years.
Papa Lazarou
Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Ice is about 8% less dense than water, so potentially if all the ice melts, the ice will take up less volume as water and the sea levels will fall?
It may be less dense, but it has the same mass, so irrespective of how less dense it becomes it will still displace the same amount if water.
From a position of some expertise in this area, I'd say the real risks are:
If this does represent a permanent change in the seasonal freeze / thaw cycle in the region, we may soon see a loss of the entire Arctic ice pack (other than seasonal winter ice). This leaves huge tracts of open water during the summer months, reducing the albedo (average over the year) allow warming of the ocean in the area, exacerbating the decline, and making the re-freeze slower.
One side affect of this is to alter the jet stream over Europe, and as this article from earlier this year states, could deliver colder / snowy winters to the UK more frequently.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17143269
The other side affect could be to slow the Gulf Stream (driven by the Thermhaline Circulation). The THC is driven partly by cold highly saline waters in the arctic, which sink and return south towards the tropics at depth. If the density difference between polar and tropical waters decreases. This can slow, and perhaps stop, thermohaline circulation.
Were this to happen we would see a dramatic cooling in NW Europe. See below:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4485840.stm
Although more recently, studies have shown the the Gulf Stream hasn't slowed.... yet.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8589512.stm
It's an interesting, and at times highly contentious subject, as we'll only know which theory is correct with hindsight.
somerset
New member
It doesnt matter how vigilant we are with recycling, lead free cars, fuel efficiancy in cars and homes,..... our little Island, or even Western Europe makes no impact on what is the larger % of pollutants emerging from the billions of people in India, China, Russia and even the USA, who have little or no controls.
Woodchip
It's all about the bikes
It is no good worrying about something you have no direct control over. Enjoy your life, try to be good to other people and the planet but at the end of the day you're only here for a short time. Enjoy it!