Anyone here work in planning? How come Ms Lucas has been able to install solar panels

[seagullsovergrimsby]

What would you expect on a solar panel thread, ads for gnome accessories?

Anyone else getting the solar powered garden gnome lights ad ?

 

[Acker79]

Timmy in 'failed bid to score points at the expense of Caroline Lucas' shock.

 

[brunswick]

its a big scam in england ....you collect power (little) and give it the big corps.

lol.

the amount of cash needed on panels in the UK to collect anything is outrageous.

 

[Nottseagull]

You can get accessories? Who'd have thought it.

Well I didn't think you could but, sadly, you can.
gnome accessories | eBay

Anyone else getting the solar powered garden gnome lights ad ?

That's a joke, right?
(Please say it is!)

 

[Bold Seagull]

its a big scam in england ....you collect power (little) and give it the big corps.

lol.

the amount of cash needed on panels in the UK to collect anything is outrageous.

Not sure what you mean?

The feed in tariff at the moment means that even a small 2.9kWp system is likely to generate approx. £1060 per year (inc. £90 reduction to energy bills). A small system will cost approx. £6500 to install, and so after 6 years it is all profit. The following 6 years will mean you've made 100% of your original investment.

The tariff ends in April 2012, but if you sign a contract before then that tariff I believe is guaranteed for 25 years. It is a no brainer if you have £6k or more to invest and a south facing roof.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

...on her roof, in a conservation area of Brighton & Hove?

Cheers.

Unbelievable, we will all carry on using an ever depleting resource and when people start to use renewable energy solutions we're up in arms FFS.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

its a big scam in england ....you collect power (little) and give it the big corps.

lol.

the amount of cash needed on panels in the UK to collect anything is outrageous.

All depends there are two options:

One. You rent out your roof and get free electricty, cost you nothing but I guess makes swelling your house trickier?

Two. You make the investment and get the full benefit of the feed in tariff and a 5 to 7 years return on your investment which lasts about 25 years!

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Not sure what you mean?

The feed in tariff at the moment means that even a small 2.9kWp system is likely to generate approx. £1060 per year (inc. £90 reduction to energy bills). A small system will cost approx. £6500 to install, and so after 6 years it is all profit. The following 6 years will mean you've made 100% of your original investment.

The tariff ends in April 2012, but if you sign a contract before then that tariff I believe is guaranteed for 25 years. It is a no brainer if you have £6k or more to invest and a south facing roof.

A few points to add to this:
1) You can pay through the nose for solar panels, there are a lot of cowboys around and you will need an accredited installer to be able to qualify for the feed-in tariff.
2) True, the current tariff is reviewed on 31 March 2012; if you install before then it is guaranteed for 25 years and rates are inflation linked.
3) The generic govt model for determining generation, savings etc is based on a set of panels located mid-country in Harrogate. Everyone I know is generating well above this figure (10-20%), which you'd expect in Surrey/W Sussex, but this reduces the payback time still further.
4) 2.9kwp of solar panels is a lot of area.
5) If you have the finance and a suitable location then it really is a no brainer.

 

[Bold Seagull]

A few points to add to this:
1) You can pay through the nose for solar panels, there are a lot of cowboys around and you will need an accredited installer to be able to qualify for the feed-in tariff.
2) True, the current tariff is reviewed on 31 March 2012; if you install before then it is guaranteed for 25 years and rates are inflation linked.
3) The generic govt model for determining generation, savings etc is based on a set of panels located mid-country in Harrogate. Everyone I know is generating well above this figure (10-20%), which you'd expect in Surrey/W Sussex, but this reduces the payback time still further.
4) 2.9kwp of solar panels is a lot of area.
5) If you have the finance and a suitable location then it really is a no brainer.

approx. 20-30 sq m roof area required based on say 12 x 245W panels at 1.7 sq m each? I might be getting something wrong there though...

 

[Triggaaar]

So why am I getting Solar Panel adds on here? I assumed I'd have had to do a search to instigate them, but here they are, barging into my home.

 

[Uncle C]

Far from being a no brainer, here is my perspective.

Figures I was given by three reputable installers was pay-back in 10 years on a South facing roof and 12 years on a West facing roof. These figures assume NO shadows fall across the panels at ANY time. Because of the way they work, even the shadow of a telephone wire will 'turn off' any panel it falls on.

Most installers offer limited guarantees (the best I could find was 10 years). They continue to quote 25 years on panels but the installers wont turn out in later years even to look (without charging big money if they are still around) and costs are down to you while you fight it out with a remote panel manufacturer. You cant ignore a duff panel as failure of a single panel will take out a big percentage of your output (because of the way they are wired).

The inverter that turns low voltage into mains power are currently averaging about 10 year lifetime (less if installed in the hot loft). These will generally fail after your (say) 5 year cover has expired and are not cheap at about £1500 - £2000 to replace.

All these additional cost need to factored in to your expected profits. Its no good arguing that you will just write it off, as who will buy your house with an old dead solar sytem messing up the roof.

The Government subsidy is very generous and without it, solar panels are a non starter, but can you trust any Government to honour the 25 year agreement (cut backs etc). Read the small print.

I believe Spain has already reneged on its promises of continuing subsidies.

So like I say its not a no brainer, though the installers will tell you it is, but they would wouldn't they.

 

[Everest]

Unbelievable, we will all carry on using an ever depleting resource and when people start to use renewable energy solutions we're up in arms FFS.

Why so surprised?
It'll only wear the sun out quicker.

 

[e77]

Leader of the Greens installs a renewable energy source in a house entirely in line with planning laws.

Not exactly the next expenses scandal, is it?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Far from being a no brainer, here is my perspective.

Figures I was given by three reputable installers was pay-back in 10 years on a South facing roof and 12 years on a West facing roof. These figures assume NO shadows fall across the panels at ANY time. Because of the way they work, even the shadow of a telephone wire will 'turn off' any panel it falls on.

Most installers offer limited guarantees (the best I could find was 10 years). They continue to quote 25 years on panels but the installers wont turn out in later years even to look (without charging big money if they are still around) and costs are down to you while you fight it out with a remote panel manufacturer. You cant ignore a duff panel as failure of a single panel will take out a big percentage of your output (because of the way they are wired).

The inverter that turns low voltage into mains power are currently averaging about 10 year lifetime (less if installed in the hot loft). These will generally fail after your (say) 5 year cover has expired and are not cheap at about £1500 - £2000 to replace.

All these additional cost need to factored in to your expected profits. Its no good arguing that you will just write it off, as who will buy your house with an old dead solar sytem messing up the roof.

The Government subsidy is very generous and without it, solar panels are a non starter, but can you trust any Government to honour the 25 year agreement (cut backs etc). Read the small print.

I believe Spain has already reneged on its promises of continuing subsidies.

So like I say its not a no brainer, though the installers will tell you it is, but they would wouldn't they.

My figures were not from an installer, but a mechanical engineer who independently assesses systems for big investors all over the world. That said, there are so many crap systems on the market you have to be careful. The draw backs and risks you indicate are no different really to any other investment, whether in shares, bonds, property, pensions, whatever.

With regard to things like inverters lasting 10 years, the technology has moved on so fast that the converters of 10 years ago (assuming that on your 10 year lifespan) are not going to be as good as they are now with it being a booming market. Things like overheating and efficiency are being constantly addressed and innovated, even over the last 3 years.

 

[skipper734]

Why so surprised?
It'll only wear the sun out quicker.

How can you say that? Your company must be making a fortune out of fitting solar panels.

 

[Uncle C]

My figures were not from an installer, but a mechanical engineer who independently assesses systems for big investors all over the world. That said, there are so many crap systems on the market you have to be careful.

Agreed, but how does the customer find the truth.

The draw backs and risks you indicate are no different really to any other investment, whether in shares, bonds, property, pensions, whatever.

I think they are different. Some investments will give you a good return, but unless you are really unlucky all or most of your capital is available at the end of the investment. This is not so with solar panels, your investment is written off at the end of the systems lifetime and in fact you have a liability of a dead system corrupting the roof.

With regard to things like inverters lasting 10 years, the technology has moved on so fast that the converters of 10 years ago (assuming that on your 10 year lifespan) are not going to be as good as they are now with it being a booming market. Things like overheating and efficiency are being constantly addressed and innovated, even over the last 3 years.

The main point I am getting at is that people are being persuaded that solar panels are a license to print money. But in later years they will need expensive maintenance, high up on the roof. This all assumes the Government does not pull its subsidies.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Why so surprised?
It'll only wear the sun out quicker.

It amazing where we have got to, and yet we still haven't effectively harnessed the fact that in 20mins the amount of energy hitting the earth from the sun could power the entire planet for 1 year!

The ideas are out there, it's have the vision and will power to implement them. Seawater Greenhouse Project

 

[Uncle C]

Impressed by the pay back times quoted on here of 6 years I have done a bit of reading. Here is a creditable article in 'This Is Money.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1705307/Are-solar-panels-worth-the-cost.html

Here is a quote

"Individual households will receive the generation and export tariffs from their electricity supplier, normally every quarter. Experts say households would normally make their money back on the cost of solar panels within about 15 years, and would continue to profit from the feed-in tariff for a further ten years. "

How on earth is anyone ariving at a 6 year payback?

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

But go with an ESTABLISHED and accredited company, preferably not one that just keeps telling you you get free electricty. There's a gold rush at the moment and like any gold rush there's an awful lot of prospectors with no chuffing idea!

 

[Bold Seagull]

Impressed by the pay back times quoted on here of 6 years I have done a bit of reading. Here is a creditable article in 'This Is Money.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1705307/Are-solar-panels-worth-the-cost.html

Here is a quote

"Individual households will receive the generation and export tariffs from their electricity supplier, normally every quarter. Experts say households would normally make their money back on the cost of solar panels within about 15 years, and would continue to profit from the feed-in tariff for a further ten years. "

How on earth is anyone ariving at a 6 year payback?

It's fairly simple really, since that article has been published, prices have tumbled. Bizarrely within their own article they quote a system at £12k, but then feature Mr Chris Rigby who got his for £8500 and got a £2500 grant, so he only paid £6k. It doesn't say what size, but sounds like he's getting 5kWh per day as quoted for their £12k system. Therefore presumably at half the cost, his payback is half the 15 years at 7.5 years? Confusing article really, I think it falls down on their example system cost which is probably out of date.