Andy Grey sacked (Merged)

[KZNSeagull]

No loss if Keys goes, personally, never rated him.

There are two issues going on here though, firstly the remarks questioning Ms Masseys ability and attributing these to all women - clearly wrong and out of order, possibly sackable offence for a start. Secondly there is the conversational sexist remarks, which whilst not right, I would imagine anyone on here would have been guilty of at some time or another, even if it's a private converation to a mate to say "ooh, she's fit" - it's no different.

Quite agree. The first was definately sackable imo purely because Sky are the main promoters of English football and should be seen to be inclusive. The fact that the video of the second was posted on YouTube just long enough for Sky to take action and has now been removed suggests to me that it was not a isolated incident and someone within Sky wanted to give them more ammo.
Yes, everyone is guilty of making comments like that, but as your earlier post shows, you run the risk when you do, that someone will be offended and take action.

 

[The Fifth Column]

What a daft argument: why on earth would a woman go on a cookery show and say men can't cook?

Well its not a daft argument at all it was just a simple analogy you have chosen to belittle for some reason. Women are just as guilty as men of sexism in the media the difference is we don't piss our knickers every time it happens.

 

[The Spanish]

The latest video to emerge shows what a offensive tool Richard Keys really is.

hahaha you read worse than that on here almost f***ing daily. there were some belters about shagging averagely attractive paedophiles and mothers of abducted children i recall. no one cracks a note. dress it up in irony and you are home and dry.

my nan would not be offended by that little exchange.

 

[alan partridge]

Turns out that that sian massey wasnt pulled from the crewe game to spare her from publicity, apparently she was in tears in her dressing room and refused to come out because the other linesman was wearing the same outfit as her !!

see jokes like that make me laugh, but I never got any sense that Keys and Gray were having a bit of banter like we all do. I can't say it 100% for sure cos I can't mind read but what they said about that woman just came across as how they think. Very very patronising, and pretty offensive. Especially when they are widely regarded as being shit at their own jobs.



Where these videos are coming from is pretty interesting.

 

[clapham_gull]

Although I'm no fan of Gray this does seem to be one massive ado about nothing. Much like the Russell Brand/Jonathon Ross saga, it's a load of people getting offended becase they feel they should:

That was hardly a fuss about nothing - it was on a different scale. It didn't "offend" me, what I found funny about that was the hoards of people who tried to defend him.

If you are going to leave message on an old man's answer phone, make sure

1) It isn't about shagging his daughter and...

2) Don't do it from a work phone.

 

[User removed 4]

The latest video to emerge shows what a offensive tool Richard Keys really is.

Do you really think that a conversation like that, is offensive ? of which countless similar ones are repeated amongst groups of blokes up and down the country on a daily basis, if you do, do you really think football is the sport for you ?? seriously ? I havent got a problem with female fans, or match officials , but if conversations like that offend you, then please f*** off to an amateur dramatics group or something and stop trying to turn a sport i love into some sanitised politically correct borefest.

 

[Acker79]

Well its not a daft argument at all it was just a simple analogy you have chosen to belittle for some reason. Women are just as guilty as men of sexism in the media the difference is we don't piss our knickers every time it happens.

Then it is a bad analogy. One involves a line of work in which only two of the participants are female, in a field dominated by men (both in the role of official, and players, coaches, and fans) with a recent history of sexual bias (by that I don't mean anything offensive, just the historic attitude that 'football is for boys') and comparing it to an industry where there is a more even split between the genders to start with, where the historical bias is a distant one and has already been put aside as men moved into the kitchen hundreds of years ago, and in which people top of their field are frequently men.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Do you really think that a conversation like that, is offensive ? of which countless similar ones are repeated amongst groups of blokes up and down the country on a daily basis, if you do, do you really think football is the sport for you ?? seriously ? I havent got a problem with female fans, or match officials , but if conversations like that offend you, then please f*** off to an amateur dramatics group or something and stop trying to turn a sport i love into some sanitised politically correct borefest.

Ah yes, this is the latest one to crop up isn't it, something tells me Keys will be getting a little nervous now, if they binned Gray for the comment to Charlotte Jackson. He must be racking his brains to think of every other comment he's ever made to his mates at SkySports

Again, I can't say I find the clip above terribly offensive. It's just a bunch of ugly guys talking with their tongues hanging out about Jamie Redknapp getting it on with a woman they could only DREAM of pulling. It's more funny than anything else because you know the hairy lardarse Keys is probably jealous of Redknapp. And it's the sort of conversation most guys have on a regular basis with their mates. No big deal. It's not like women never talk about men (although probably not with expressions like "hanging out the back of her" ).

(Will still enjoy it if Keys gets sacked though)

 

[Lady Whistledown]

As an aside, apparently interest from women in becoming football officials has absolutely shot up since this story originally broke.

What have you done, Andy, what HAVE you done?

 

[User removed 4]

It's more funny than anything else because you know the hairy lardarse Keys is probably jealous of Redknapp.

Think you're blinded by anger edna!! he's hardly a "lardarse" is he ??

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Ah yes, this is the latest one to crop up isn't it, something tells me Keys will be getting a little nervous now, if they binned Gray for the comment to Charlotte Jackson. He must be racking his brains to think of every other comment he's ever made to his mates at SkySports

Again, I can't say I find the clip above terribly offensive. It's just a bunch of ugly guys talking with their tongues hanging out about Jamie Redknapp getting it on with a woman they could only DREAM of pulling. It's more funny than anything else because you know the hairy lardarse Keys is probably jealous of Redknapp. And it's the sort of conversation most guys have on a regular basis with their mates. No big deal. It's not like women never talk about men (although probably not with expressions like "hanging out the back of her" ).

(Will still enjoy it if Keys gets sacked though)

As I said earlier, did you not find the Keys comments rather sinister and creepy more than anything - especially when you see them written down, they may come across differently spoken. Apparently the two of them made qutie a few enemies at Sky, so there was no shortage of people willing to give them up.

We move on, will be interesting to see who replaces them. It will be Merson who next says something dodgy - although he's difficult enough to understand at the best of times.

 

[TheBlueAndWhiteStrips]

Do you really think that a conversation like that, is offensive ?

So I take it you missed the condescending tone in Keys voice? Or the way Keys refers to this Louise as "it" not her but "it"?

of which countless similar ones are repeated amongst groups of blokes up and down the country on a daily basis, if you do, do you really think football is the sport for you

This was not in the pub with a group of mates though was it? This was in a TV studio in front of countless female employees by a 50 something so called professional.

then please f*** off to an amateur dramatics group or something and stop trying to turn a sport i love into some sanitised politically correct borefest.

I can see that this has you wound up a little, maybe you should get some fresh air, take a walk with your Bull mastiff, and drag your knuckles round the park for a while!

 

[TheBlueAndWhiteStrips]

Ah yes, this is the latest one to crop up isn't it, something tells me Keys will be getting a little nervous now, if they binned Gray for the comment to Charlotte Jackson. He must be racking his brains to think of every other comment he's ever made to his mates at SkySports

Again, I can't say I find the clip above terribly offensive. It's just a bunch of ugly guys talking with their tongues hanging out about Jamie Redknapp getting it on with a woman they could only DREAM of pulling. It's more funny than anything else because you know the hairy lardarse Keys is probably jealous of Redknapp. And it's the sort of conversation most guys have on a regular basis with their mates. No big deal. It's not like women never talk about men (although probably not with expressions like "hanging out the back of her" ).




(Will still enjoy it if Keys gets sacked though)

No not exactly offensive, but you expect him to have more sense than to say it on camera though

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Think you're blinded by anger edna!! he's hardly a "lardarse" is he ??

It's interesting that you say that, because (and this is edging towards another issue that I probably don't even want to go near right now ) that brings up another point: the judging by appearance of TV presenters. If Keys was a female presenter (well, he wouldn't even get on SkySports at his age if he was, but humour me on this), he would be targeted by the media because of his weight, as he quite clearly has an extra chin or two and a bit of additional ballast around the waist. Being a man, nobody mentions it, or describes him as "curvy" or "fuller figured".

He's no Bernard Manning, granted- or at least not in a physical sense- but put him in a dress and call him Fern Britton and the entire tabloid press would be out in force suggesting he needs a crash diet.

But ANYWAY. Back to the issue at hand

 

[The Spanish]

No not exactly offensive, but you expect him to have more sense than to say it on camera though

so why say offensive. if you find him crass and boorish say so. you can say i dont like common boorish blokes (with bull mastiffs perhaps) if you like. no one minds on here for gods sake. dont dress it up as a necessary stance to fight genuine sexism and discrimination with though. we all know where you are coming from really.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

It's interesting that you say that, because (and this is edging towards another issue that I probably don't even want to go near right now ) that brings up another point: the judging by appearance of TV presenters. If Keys was a female presenter (well, he wouldn't even get on SkySports at his age if he was, but humour me on this), he would be targeted by the media because of his weight, as he quite clearly has an extra chin or two and a bit of additional ballast around the waist. Being a man, nobody mentions it, or describes him as "curvy" or "fuller figured".

He's no Bernard Manning, granted- or at least not in a physical sense- but put him in a dress and call him Fern Britton and the entire tabloid press would be out in force suggesting he needs a crash diet.

But ANYWAY. Back to the issue at hand

I know we've gone O/T but Eamon Holmes gets plenty of stick for his weight, and so does Jeff Stelling on Soccer Saturday, but I agree with you generally.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

As I said earlier, did you not find the Keys comments rather sinister and creepy more than anything - especially when you see them written down, they may come across differently spoken. Apparently the two of them made qutie a few enemies at Sky, so there was no shortage of people willing to give them up.

We move on, will be interesting to see who replaces them. It will be Merson who next says something dodgy - although he's difficult enough to understand at the best of times.

Agreed, I do think it was creepy. If I worked with someone who was constantly like that, to the point of being unprofessional, I'd say something (the key is constantly isn't it, a one off comment could be dismissed).

And to make comments like that in front of a camera I think what that really says is that they were confident that their little men's world would never ever be penetrated, and it never even occurred to them that someone somewhere might be pissed off enough to drop them in it.

Ah well. You makes yer bed....



Anyone heard about the new Andy Gray/Richard Keys iPhone app due out this week?

 

[TheBlueAndWhiteStrips]

It's interesting that you say that, because (and this is edging towards another issue that I probably don't even want to go near right now ) that brings up another point: the judging by appearance of TV presenters. If Keys was a female presenter (well, he wouldn't even get on SkySports at his age if he was, but humour me on this), he would be targeted by the media because of his weight, as he quite clearly has an extra chin or two and a bit of additional ballast around the waist. Being a man, nobody mentions it, or describes him as "curvy" or "fuller figured".

He's no Bernard Manning, granted- or at least not in a physical sense- but put him in a dress and call him Fern Britton and the entire tabloid press would be out in force suggesting he needs a crash diet.

But ANYWAY. Back to the issue at hand

Your right he could be a little Rotund

 

[Lady Whistledown]

 

[TheBlueAndWhiteStrips]

There is a interesting piece in the Guardian about just that

'There's been a culture of bullying and sexism at Sky for a long time'
Three women who held prominent positions at Sky Sports describe a 'lads' club' and a 'climate of fear'

The only surprise about the events leading to Andy Gray's sacking as the most famous voice in football yesterday was that he had not made a similar gaffe in public before. That is the view of three women who have all held frontline roles at Sky Sports.

Fearing repercussions that could harm their careers if they were identified, the three spoke to the Guardian on condition of anonymity. But despite talking separately, their views echoed each other's; each describing the bullying and sexist culture they feel Gray and his co-presenter, Richard Keys, have fostered.

One former Sky journalist said: "It came as absolutely no surprise to me to see this. The surprise is that we haven't seen more. It's the kind of language and vocabulary that is used within the Sky football department all the time."

Another, who still works for Sky, said: "There are many stories of their shocking behaviour. [Gray and Keys] are hated by the crews. It's a climate of fear pervading. But as long as everyone is laughing and it's a joke it's all right isn't it? I believe sexism is systemic and not openly challenged but goes underground or disguised as jokes or 'just banter'."

The third separately cited how "just banter" is claimed as a defence, and explained why that claim holds no water. "Live football is well known as something everyone wants to work on. But no one wants to work with those two. They took the piss out of a runner for having no money. It's nasty bullying with an edge. It's not just banter."

All three women agree that Barney Francis, who has been managing director of Sky Sports since his appointment 18 months ago, has improved matters. His decision yesterday summarily to dismiss Gray shows that he will scarcely indulge a chauvinistic culture any longer. One said: "There has been a culture of bullying and sexism around Sky for a very long time, but recently Sky have been managing the bullying a lot better through changes in management. There were rumours of people being told off and that bullying behaviour was unacceptable."

Yet despite the positive steps made by Francis, the women all expressed a feeling that there must be more widespread surgery to eradicate what they described as a patriarchy that limits women's promotion prospects. "There's this blokey vibe and it's like a lads' club," said one. "At the BBC the head of sport is Barbara Slater. Sky are a long way from that situation.

"During my time at Sky Sports News it wasn't hidden that women were appointed to present on it primarily because of the way they looked. You can see how Andy and Richard are behaving like that because the people at the top have employed people without any experience. Clearly that's sexist and it means at Sky you are always looked down on as a woman involved in sport, full stop."

That view chimed with another's view. She said: "You'd get bosses saying, 'It's just fruit on the barrow.' I found it a very sexist working environment. The production staff found it incredibly frustrating: they're younger for a start than the management.

"But it permeated through the whole culture. When Sky Sports News first started the girls were in suits. Sky was still about the image but they wanted women who were interested in sport. "Any monkey can read an autocue and you can't build passion for what you do from nothing. But if you're a woman you were there as decoration. Anything else was a bonus. It's not that there is a criterion about how the girls look. It's that it is the main criterion."

Sky told the Guardian that it hires its presenters principally for their abilities as journalists and presenters. Nonetheless, one of the former Sky journalists pointed out that the fact that Gray and Keys's unreconstructed comments were leaked into the public domain reflects the glee that Sky employees would feel at their downfall.

"I think deep down Richard and Andy are just bullies," she said. "They bully new men in the game as well. It's how they operate. They don't have many friends there but after 20 years they've always been at the top of the game and earning a ridiculous amount of money, so I guess who's laughing?

"But they have ruled the roost for a long time and upset people for a long time. They got into bother with someone who had a schadenfreude motive. I am just surprised that you have a broadcaster with experience of 20 years talking like that in front of a mic and not expecting it to get out. It was not the first time they were caught saying things they shouldn't say. They think they can get away with murder. How arrogant."

A Sky spokesman said last night: "There was evidence at the weekend and we took action. Today there has been new evidence and we have taken entirely appropriate action. If people are saying there is a culture of sexism here that shows we don't tolerate it."