Andy Gray and Richard Keys....

[Giraffe]

Not read this thread since early yesterday, so apologies if it's been convered, but whilst what they said was totally out of order (I watched the game, thought nothing of having a woman lino, thought she had a good game etc.), one thing occurred to me ...

Recently I was unlucky enough to see about 5 mintues of Loose Women on ITV. The whole time I watched it was absolute anti-male rhetoric, quite rabid stuff too. How does that weigh up against what Keys and Gray said, I wonder, and that's on every day (I assume the prog is roughly the same every day).

I was thinking the same. I really don't see that there is much difference.

Lets be honest about it we are different breeds and if it wasn't for the sex aspect we'd never get along. Women slate men just as much as men slate women, that's life so move on.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I would have thought the difference between making derogatory remarks about men generally and making sexist remarks about a specific person and calling her professional capabilities into question is a difference even a primary schoolchild could grasp.

 

[jcdenton08]

I can only assume those people calling it 'banter' and 'a laugh' haven't actually bothered to listen to the recordings themselves. There was a certain malice in Keys' voice and a certain arrogance in Gray's which is evident to even the dimmest of bigots.

 

[black & white seagull]

That piece by Paul Hayward is superb. And an interesting insight into the two protagonists' personalities.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

I would have thought the difference between making derogatory remarks about men generally and making sexist remarks about a specific person and calling her professional capabilities into question is a difference even a primary schoolchild could grasp.

So, if they'd just said "all women can't understand the offside rule" (which I think they did), that would be ok ?

 

[Tooting Gull]

I see reporter Andy Burton has been stood down as well now for saying something that probably 80 per cent of this board have said at some time. Whatever else has gone on here, it is also an utter carve-up from the production team whistle-blower.

What's worse - working in a team alongside someone who is a bit chauvinistic, or someone who would sell you down the river and try and end your career?

 

[jcdenton08]

Are you serious Tooting? Those people had a choice whether or not to act like bigoted chauvanists.

To quote American law they had no 'expectation of privacy' when having a private conversation in a television studio with microphones attached to them and microphones surrounding them, and multiple video cameras pointing at them.

 

[MJsGhost]

If we agree they should be sacked, is it automatically hypocritical to laugh at this?

 

[jcdenton08]

The one on the right looks like that Max bloke from Eastenders

 

[Tooting Gull]

Are you serious Tooting? Those people had a choice whether or not to act like bigoted chauvanists.

To quote American law they had no 'expectation of privacy' when having a private conversation in a television studio with microphones attached to them and microphones surrounding them, and multiple video cameras pointing at them.

Just leave aside the bollocks witchhunt point-scoring for a moment, and deal with what was actually said on a case by case basis.

If you've watched it, you'll know that the reporter observed the cameraman thought the linsewoman was a looker, but that he didn't always trust his judgment on women. He didn't even make a direct comment himself. That is pretty everyday stuff, and a million miles away from the Keys/Gray idea about not doing your job properly.

And who gives a toss about American law?

 

[sten_super]

I actually agree with Tooting Gull about Burton; all he said was that she was 'a bit of a looker'. However what Gray and Keys said was out of order.

It's not that difficult to understand; think about what would happen if you said the phrases in a work context and it should be obvious where the boundary lies. If I said that a client/collaborater was 'a bit of a looker' to my co-workers, I'd probably get odd looks but nothing more. If I said the aforementioned didn't know what she was talking about because she's a woman, then I'd be in the shit, and rightly so.

 

[Brighton1]

Nobody is saying it isn't a "free country". If you're in certain professions you cannot do or say certain things. I'd say in about 99.99% of professions, you can't be a sexist twat.

Sexist twatt? for saying that women don't understand the offside rule? Oh common I think alot of men would think that or atleast be more concerned with a female official than a male. Anyone that gets offended by this IMO needs to get a life. The woman ended up having a good game so really that left the commentators (sexist men) with egg on their faces. At the end of the day generalising women are better than certain things than men and vice versa. If you can't accept that so be it.

BTW- who thinks women are better drivers than men (generally)? or are we not allowed to have an opinion because were worried the do-gooders will call us sexist? FFS get a life.

 

[Buck]

If we agree they should be sacked, is it automatically hypocritical to laugh at this?

If that didn't make you smile then I suggest you get out more......life's far too short

 

[El Presidente]

What's the betting that they are doing very careful references of Keys' replacement to make sure they also don't have the same kind of 'form'

Do you mean someone who doesn't have unfeasibly hairy hands?

It's a shame Jeremy Beadle is no longer with us.

 

[crodonilson]

What a storm in a teacup, I've waited for this thing to blow over before I posted my comments on this matter.

Gray and Keys are absolute collosusesat the heart of Sky Sports EPL coverage, and for that reason they will not be sacked other than for gross misconduct, which I think you'll find this is.

There were 28,000 people at that match on Saturday and I bet when they heard one of the referees assistants were women the overwhelming majority of them would have been saying the same things. One of the reasons the pair are as much loved as they are is because of the banter they have along with Jamie, much the same as fans in pubs and living rooms up and down the country have, so people feel they can relate to them.

 

[Acker79]

BTW- who thinks women are better drivers than men (generally)? or are we not allowed to have an opinion because were worried the do-gooders will call us sexist? FFS get a life.

There are plenty of studies, records of accidents and who are involved, etc. that backs up the assertion that women are better, or at least safer drivers.

What evidence is there that backs up that of the women that are seriously interested in football (i.e. not those that put up with it because their partners love footie), a greater percentage have more difficulty understanding the offside rule than men who are seriously interested in footie? (and there are plenty of men who claim confusion - Chris Kamara, Andy Gray and Richard Keys spring to mind - especially when it comes to phases of play etc)

 

[NIGELROBERT]

sack them both

 

[Brian Fantana]

Let's be honest, they were complete idiots to make those comments sitting in a TV studio while mic'd up. Whether or not they thought that were or weren't on air is, to an extent, irrelevant. I personally don't think they should be sacked but hopefully it will set a precedent for other commentators and journalists to deal with issues like this in a more professional way.

 

[tottenhamseagull]

Gray has been sacked

 

[Huple]

I`m not a sexist but...............

Actually I am and a very big one at that.