Am I missing the point about tuition fees?

[Herr Tubthumper]

ROSM for me this just shows that the Daily Mail journalist/editors had missed the point.

This is a delicious irony. You are totally missing the point of education my friend.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As someone who's worked in the pharmaceutical industry for the over 35 years now, I understand exactly what EP means.
For some background, you could look up " UK Industry Training Boards" and, particularly, HM government's rationale for their enforced demise, I remember that Engineering Employers' Federation being particularly miffed and vociferous at the time.

What do you do?

 

[sten_super]

This is a delicious irony. You are totally missing the point of education my friend.

Missing the point, or just thinking it has a different point to you? Maybe I should have qualified my statement. We've been over this before; I'm quite happy to provide broad education up to 18, to improve the intelligence of the general populace. However, I firmly believe that the level of specificity involved in higher education means that it shouldn't be undertaken just for the sake of it. You have a different opinion. Doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

 

[Curious Orange]

I am touched that the question I asked about what was deemed a mickey mouse degree and how many people as a percentage of students were taking them has illicited just one reply and to be fair to Hova Girl she didn't really answer the question. She did give us a nice insight on her views of the propulsion of marxism in modern britain though. Worthy of a sociology dissertation that.

The reason why this wouldn't be answered could be found in a story I heard from a Daily Mail journalist (see I've been a bit naughty here as I've mentioned them and I knew there would be no real answer to this) who was asked to write a piece on this very subject but once they argued with the editorial team about what was a mickey mouse degree they ended up having to rule out things like media studies (as some of them had got their NCTJ quals that way) and History of Art (as two others had this) and Sociology as some had this before looking to go into politics or the civil service (or had combined with Economics) or indeed it was being studied by their offspring.

So they were left with things like The Beatles, History of Comedy, Contemporary Flower Arranging etc It worked out that they could only find c800 people in the country studying these courses. Or less than one tenth of the students studying at Sussex University.

Not a great story in the end and so quietly dropped.

Yet still quite an interesting one, and the Guardian did have a crack at putting some flesh on that question, though it would have been nice if they'd stated whether the 20% of Media Studies students entering employment in the Catering/Retail sector where doing so in McDonalds, Burger King or KFC.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

What do you do?

Regulatory Affairs mostly now. Industry background is in analytical/pharmaceutical development and production; academically, a degree in applied chemistry (chem eng really).

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Regulatory Affairs mostly now. Industry background is in analytical/pharmaceutical development and production; academically, a degree in applied chemistry (chem eng really).

Okay. I work in phase III R&D (Neuroscience), working with and crunching down the data from the trials. Mainly been working on submissions for the past 3 years though. I'm familiar with you guys.

 

[Mr Banana]

I'm quite happy to provide broad education up to 18, to improve the intelligence of the general populace. However, I firmly believe that the level of specificity involved in higher education means that it shouldn't be undertaken just for the sake of it. You have a different opinion. Doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

Actually it does make you wrong. I did one of those pointless media degrees you talk about and, even if I hadn't learnt a thing on it, it would still be probably the most important few years of my life. I just about afforded it coming from a lower-middle class family, and I'm still paying off a five-figure debt because of it. Everybody should be entitled to a university education and if you don't think our taxes are worth that then yes, you are wrong.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Actually it does make you wrong. I did one of those pointless media degrees you talk about and, even if I hadn't learnt a thing on it, it would still be probably the most important few years of my life. I just about afforded it coming from a lower-middle class family, and I'm still paying off a five-figure debt because of it. Everybody should be entitled to a university education and if you don't think our taxes are worth that then yes, you are wrong.

No he's not wrong and neither are you - it's opinion. We're not talking about 2+2=4 here and so there is no right and wrong just opinion.

 

[Mr Banana]

I guess if you wanted to paw around it you could change it to "just" and "unjust" or "fair" and "unfair", but it's basically right and wrong.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Actually it does make you wrong. I did one of those pointless media degrees you talk about and, even if I hadn't learnt a thing on it, it would still be probably the most important few years of my life. I just about afforded it coming from a lower-middle class family, and I'm still paying off a five-figure debt because of it. Everybody should be entitled to a university education and if you don't think our taxes are worth that then yes, you are wrong.

Same here. I have always said the single most important thing in my life was my move to uni and the all round education it gave me.

 

[sten_super]

Actually it does make you wrong. I did one of those pointless media degrees you talk about and, even if I hadn't learnt a thing on it, it would still be probably the most important few years of my life. I just about afforded it coming from a lower-middle class family, and I'm still paying off a five-figure debt because of it. Everybody should be entitled to a university education and if you don't think our taxes are worth that then yes, you are wrong.

Do you mind me asking why you say it was probably the most important few years of your life? I'm genuinely interested.

I went to university and got a degree which I use every day in my job, and that's the only reason I would say my university experience was signficant to my life. Did I enjoy myself? Yes. Did I meet some friends that I'll have for the rest of my life? Yes. Would I have done both of those things anyway if I'd gone to an FE college or got a job at 18? Most likely, yes.

 

[Curious Orange]

Everybody should be entitled to a university education and if you don't think our taxes are worth that then yes, you are wrong.

I think that you should caveat that "Everybody who is capable..." There is no point in sending people to University who can't hack it just on a point of principle.

 

[Mr Banana]

Alright, so if you want to cut out the ambiguous "opinion" side of it, let's just say that if you asked most people who have a degree whether they thought it was an important thing to do they would say it was. A lot of them struggled to afford it under the current constraints - it was hardly a luxurious financial proposition for potential students in the first place. Why should anyone who wants to do it now not have the same opportunity they had? The country is not so economically strained that education and universities have to get cut. Nobody can answer whether this or that degree is more or less worthwhile than any other degree/going straight down t'pit, but everyone should be entitled to the opportunity. If more of our taxes went on "pointless" degrees and less went on, say, bonuses for Topshop executives, I'd be proud of that.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

The country is not so economically strained that education and universities have to get cut.

Isn't it?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Isn't it?

No, there is more than one way to deal with this recession. And if anything needs to be invested in at the moment it is our future....and education is up there with anything else.

If you want to make some cuts, how about bringing back the troops? How about making commuters pay full price for their trains instead of tax-payers subsidising it? Getting local how about Brighton council not spunking over 2 million pounds of Brighton tax-payer's money replacing a CE and 6 managers with 4 'super heads'. There's some big ticket savings I could have made for you.

 

[Stoo82]

If University is a right, is it ok for me to to get every degree that ever existed and staying at university my whole life?

 

[bhaexpress]

Same here. I have always said the single most important thing in my life was my move to uni and the all round education it gave me.

Yes, you do give them impression of somebody who had and has no life. It's a shame you feel you had to be taught how to live it, hardly any surprise that you ended up the way you have.

 

[simmo]

I think you will find that all three parties were resoundly rejected in May.

All western governments reacted to the recession in the same way, which was to use a fiscal stimulus to prevent the worst excesses of the recession, and nationalise a number of financial institutions to prevent a global collapse of banking. Excessive lending and lax financial control is more of the domain of the B of E and FSA than parliament. Labour did make some errors during their 13 years of tenure, but blaming them for a global recession is just plain silly.

I don't blame Labour for a global recesion, but I do blame them for the massive defecit we face as a country and I do blame them for the fact that their economic policy positively encouraged the bankers to act the way as they did (as did other countries governments I agree), you can blame the B of E and the FSA etc etc but whom ultimately does the buck stop with, surely the Chancellor and Prime Minister (First Lord of the Treasury). If neither of these two are responsible for the economic situation that the UK is in then what is point of either post? Didn't Gordon when he was Chancellor lay claim to bringing the end of boom and bust? Surely when the biggest bust probably for 70 years comes along a few years after that bold pronouncement, why is he no longer culpable.

 

[bhaexpress]

If University is a right, is it ok for me to to get every degree that ever existed and staying at university my whole life?

Well it will teach you how to talk crap about a wide variety of subjects. Why is that the likes of Mr Tubthumper feel that university taught him about life ? Most people manage to learn as part of growing up. Most of us learn about life without having to learn about life vicariously through others.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yes, you do give them impression of somebody who had and has no life. It's a shame you feel you had to be taught how to live it, hardly any surprise that you ended up the way you have.

I get by, do not worry about me and my life.