Am I missing the point about tuition fees?

[beorhthelm]

From what I've read (and I could well be wrong) what buggered Northern rock was liquidity in the financial markets.

Not the fact they were offering 100% mortgages.

what im saying is their business model made them known to be higher risk, so were the first to feel the reduced liquidity.

 

[El Presidente]

From what I've read (and I could well be wrong) what buggered Northern rock was liquidity in the financial markets.

Not the fact they were offering 100% mortgages.

That's my point.

Borrow short and lend long, it was a disaster waiting to happen!

 

[KneeOn]

F*ck me - lighten up a bit. I was dissecting Sarah Palin's post - not asking an exam question.

Sorry, got ahead of my self there

I've spent a year and a bit having to explain that no. I don't take politics because i want to be an MP or what ever but becaus ei'm interested in its workigs etc and that its not just learn to be a politician. Mybad.

 

[beorhthelm]

I've spent a year and a bit having to explain that no. I don't take politics because i want to be an MP or what ever but becaus ei'm interested in its workigs etc and that its not just learn to be a politician.

and then presumably utilise your insight of political machinery to a position in a hi-tech company no doubt?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I can't see this at all. Any sensible doctor (and I assume most of them are) would employ an administrator to handle all this stuff. It will just mean a transfer from the PCT to the GP consortia. Nothing will change.

Oh great.

Are you suggesting that the major decisions about priorities for investment in health services will be taken by "an administrator" recruited by a GP?

How will this administrator decide whether more of the overstretched health service budget should be committed to mental health services, for example, rather than neo-natal care?

 

[clapham_gull]

Oh great.

Are you suggesting that the major decisions about priorities for investment in health services will be taken by "an administrator" recruited by a GP?

How will this administrator decide whether more of the overstretched health service budget should be committed to mental health services, for example, rather than neo-natal care?

I'm sure someone teaches a Mickey Mouse degree on Health Service Administration somewhere.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

My beef is that it is all smoke and mirrors. Under the old scheme students borrowed £3,000 from a government agency, which the agency itself had to borrow, and the government borrowed the other £3,000, and £6,000 went to the university. Under the new scheme students borrow £6,000 from a government agency, BUT the agency still has to borrow this sum in the first place as before. The only difference is that these debts are off balance sheet, and therefore do not appear on the government borrowing list, but are there nonetheless.

Under the new scheme graduates only pay 9% of their income above £21,000 (index linked), and the first repayments will only start in 2015. There will therefore be ZERO actual improvement in cash flow to the government coffers until the next parliament at the very earliest.

... except it will be even worse, once the level of borrowing goes up, once fees start to rise.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I am touched that the question I asked about what was deemed a mickey mouse degree and how many people as a percentage of students were taking them has illicited just one reply and to be fair to Hova Girl she didn't really answer the question. She did give us a nice insight on her views of the propulsion of marxism in modern britain though. Worthy of a sociology dissertation that.

The reason why this wouldn't be answered could be found in a story I heard from a Daily Mail journalist (see I've been a bit naughty here as I've mentioned them and I knew there would be no real answer to this) who was asked to write a piece on this very subject but once they argued with the editorial team about what was a mickey mouse degree they ended up having to rule out things like media studies (as some of them had got their NCTJ quals that way) and History of Art (as two others had this) and Sociology as some had this before looking to go into politics or the civil service (or had combined with Economics) or indeed it was being studied by their offspring.

So they were left with things like The Beatles, History of Comedy, Contemporary Flower Arranging etc It worked out that they could only find c800 people in the country studying these courses. Or less than one tenth of the students studying at Sussex University.

Not a great story in the end and so quietly dropped.

I once TAUGHT a course at Sussex University entitled "incest and exogamy". Does that count?

 

[HovaGirl]

I think Hovagirl seems a delightful and intelligent young lady; not a description I'd apply to the dreadful Mrs Palin. The only thing I'd point out is that the beheading of Charles 1 came at the end of The Civil War, it didn't initiate it.

Thank you for calling me young. xxx I'm 58 today! As to Charles I, he was beheaded at the end of the first Civil War, and that precipitated the 2nd civil war. All now generally known as The (English) Civil War.

 

[Castello]

Ah, I get you. Don't tax the rich. Sack the rich.

When of course we all know what is really meant here is; dont tax the rich, dont sack the rich, bail them out with billions of hard working peoples money and then give then more bonuses.

 

[Castello]

I am touched that the question I asked about what was deemed a mickey mouse degree and how many people as a percentage of students were taking them has illicited just one reply and to be fair to Hova Girl she didn't really answer the question. She did give us a nice insight on her views of the propulsion of marxism in modern britain though. Worthy of a sociology dissertation that.

The reason why this wouldn't be answered could be found in a story I heard from a Daily Mail journalist (see I've been a bit naughty here as I've mentioned them and I knew there would be no real answer to this) who was asked to write a piece on this very subject but once they argued with the editorial team about what was a mickey mouse degree they ended up having to rule out things like media studies (as some of them had got their NCTJ quals that way) and History of Art (as two others had this) and Sociology as some had this before looking to go into politics or the civil service (or had combined with Economics) or indeed it was being studied by their offspring.

So they were left with things like The Beatles, History of Comedy, Contemporary Flower Arranging etc It worked out that they could only find c800 people in the country studying these courses. Or less than one tenth of the students studying at Sussex University.

Not a great story in the end and so quietly dropped.

thats the problem with reality, so damn inconvenient.

 

[bhaexpress]

Here's a thought, how many jobs or professions actually need a university education ? Next, how many people have applied their degree in their current job ? Is it not about time that industry was encouraged to have their own training programs or apprenticeships ? Organisations could be given incentives to implement such schemes and thus give people an education that could be applied rather than just taking a degree which they don't use. Less burden on the tax payer by reducing the number of students and creating roles that are specific and therefore relevant.

 

[ROKERITE]

Thank you for calling me young. xxx I'm 58 today! As to Charles I, he was beheaded at the end of the first Civil War, and that precipitated the 2nd civil war. All now generally known as The (English) Civil War.

I should have realised such balanced and sensible views didn't come from someone under 30. Happy Birthday to you!

 

[drew]

I should have realised such balanced and sensible views didn't come from someone under 30. Happy Birthday to you!

Balanced! Jesus, I'd hate to see your scales of justice!!!!!

 

[El Presidente]

Is it not about time that industry was encouraged to have their own training programs or apprenticeships ?

What's 'industry'?

 

[sten_super]

I am touched that the question I asked about what was deemed a mickey mouse degree and how many people as a percentage of students were taking them has illicited just one reply and to be fair to Hova Girl she didn't really answer the question. She did give us a nice insight on her views of the propulsion of marxism in modern britain though. Worthy of a sociology dissertation that.

The reason why this wouldn't be answered could be found in a story I heard from a Daily Mail journalist (see I've been a bit naughty here as I've mentioned them and I knew there would be no real answer to this) who was asked to write a piece on this very subject but once they argued with the editorial team about what was a mickey mouse degree they ended up having to rule out things like media studies (as some of them had got their NCTJ quals that way) and History of Art (as two others had this) and Sociology as some had this before looking to go into politics or the civil service (or had combined with Economics) or indeed it was being studied by their offspring.

So they were left with things like The Beatles, History of Comedy, Contemporary Flower Arranging etc It worked out that they could only find c800 people in the country studying these courses. Or less than one tenth of the students studying at Sussex University.

Not a great story in the end and so quietly dropped.

ROSM for me this just shows that the Daily Mail journalist/editors had missed the point. The problem is not 'mickey mouse' degrees, it is people doing unnecessary degrees. The skills required to be a journalist are various skills taught through NCTJ qualifications (such as shorthand), good English and a great deal of drive to do a job you love, generally for very little pay and even less recognition. That does not require a degree in Media Studies, or History of Art. It requires a lot of groundwork (working for student papers, etc.) and time spent at a college doing NCTJ courses.

 

[bhaexpress]

What's 'industry'?

As an 'academic' I wouldn't expect you to understand the real world.

 

[ROSM]

ROSM for me this just shows that the Daily Mail journalist/editors had missed the point. The problem is not 'mickey mouse' degrees, it is people doing unnecessary degrees. The skills required to be a journalist are various skills taught through NCTJ qualifications (such as shorthand), good English and a great deal of drive to do a job you love, generally for very little pay and even less recognition. That does not require a degree in Media Studies, or History of Art. It requires a lot of groundwork (working for student papers, etc.) and time spent at a college doing NCTJ courses.

I referred to mickey mouse as that phrase had been bandied about on here. But who's to define if a degree is unnecessary? If employers ask for it then it's necessary. Many papers now require degrees to enter employment as a journalist. In some cases this is in addition to the NCTJ.

 

[sten_super]

I referred to mickey mouse as that phrase had been bandied about on here. But who's to define if a degree is unnecessary? If employers ask for it then it's necessary. Many papers now require degrees to enter employment as a journalist. In some cases this is in addition to the NCTJ.

Papers ask for it as part of grade inflation though, don't they? A lot of relatively unskilled office jobs now require a degree, but that's only supposedly as an indicator of the 'quality' of the applicant, rather than due to any specific skills that it demonstrates they have.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

What's 'industry'?

As an 'academic' I wouldn't expect you to understand the real world.

As someone who's worked in the pharmaceutical industry for the over 35 years now, I understand exactly what EP means.
For some background, you could look up " UK Industry Training Boards" and, particularly, HM government's rationale for their enforced demise, I remember that Engineering Employers' Federation being particularly miffed and vociferous at the time.