All Blacks - bunch of f***ing ANIMALS

[Icy Gull]

Hmm...I don't know how you can admit that some of selections were questionable and then say that the management team wasn't incompetent.

But it's not just the selections that stink. From the extracts I've seen from Henson's book, some of the players were handled appallingly. The way that he was stitched up by Woodward and Campbell was truly dreadful and doesn't strike me as good management.

I have no vendetta against Woodward but I am angry that the tour was so badly handled from start to finish: we never had a chance.

Team selections are always questionable if you lose heavily. Whatever team had been selected would have lost heavily imo, so does that automatically make the manager incompetant?

Don't think I haven't noticed that the knockers are Welsh and Irish with possible grievances about their players being excluded

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

It was investigated at the time. "Dump" tackles like this are not uncommon, it's just rare that someone gets injured. Rugby is a hard sport, full of physical contact and accidents happen.

I don't want a lot of rugby - other than U16 - but tackles like that are uncommon surely. There would be no-one left on the pitch.

Rugby is a physical game with lots of opportunity for illegal violence - all the more reason why players have to take care not to stray too far, or too often outside of what is allowed.

It certainley didn't lose us the series - but it tarnished their win. As a team they will never receive the plaudits they could have for their win. I would give them both long bans.

 

[Gwylan]

Team selections are always questionable if you lose heavily. Whatever team had been selected would have lost heavily imo, so does that automatically make the manager incompetant?

Don't think I haven't noticed that the knockers are Welsh and Irish with possible grievances about their players being excluded

There is that. But I honestly believe that the real problem is that the form players weren't picked - and I wouldn't have cared whether they were Welsh, Irish, English or even Scottish.

And yes, we might well have lost still. But I reckon that we could (and should) have put up a better fight.

 

[Grendel]

Don't think I haven't noticed that the knockers are Welsh and Irish with possible grievances about their players being excluded

And rightly so - Wales and Ireland were the two strongest teams in this years Six Nations, yet the majority of Woodwards sides were English players who were either (a) past their best (b) not match fit or (c) retired from international rugby.

As an example, I wouldn't have had a problem with Wilkinson playing if he was fit and had match practice but as it was he'd played a handful of competitive games, was struggled to come back from injury and played out of position in the first test. The only surprise about his tour was that he wasn't dropped after the first test.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

As a former egg chaser .....
1. The first tackle is always the most important, You're not trying to put the guy in hospital what your trying to do is knock the stuffing out the him. Show him what he can expect for the next 80 minutes. However, the two Kiwi's were over the top, nut first tackles tend to be like that. BTW this tackle is common but not to this extreme. The job of the back row is to ensure that this doesn't happen

2. The IRB acted on the evidence presented to them at the time. Personally I think the Lions pack should have paid the two Kiwi's a visit during the game, It will be interesting to see what happens during the internationals.

3. Woodward lost the plot, he picked players who weren't at there best, fit or up for it. He let his heart rule his head, and taking Alastair ' numpty' Cambell was stupid. Whilst we wouldn't have won the series it should have been a damn sight closer.

4. Unlike football, rolling around like a girl when someone puts their hand near your face isn't going to get you anything .... apart from a slagging from the ref and a mauling from the opposition. People get hurt playing Rugby, I stopped playing at 31 because of injuries I would hazard a guess that most of the other former eggchasers stoped because of injury rather than 'old age'

Play rugby .. watch football. The only combination.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

It was investigated at the time. "Dump" tackles like this are not uncommon, it's just rare that someone gets injured. Rugby is a hard sport, full of physical contact and accidents happen.

Losing BOD didn't f*** the Lions, they were f***ed when they picked an incompetent management team last year.

That would have been the incompetant management team led by Woodward, the winner of the world cup then would it?

Isn't it strange how our colonial brothers and sisters can never accept that England do win something well every now and again. After all, we won the Footy WC and Rugby WC, regained the Ashes from the best team in the world and yet, we still have this petty sniping and jealousy.

Its very sad really

 

[Grendel]

That would have been the incompetant management team led by Woodward, the winner of the world cup then would it?

Isn't it strange how our colonial brothers and sisters can never accept that England do win something well every now and again. After all, we won the Footy WC and Rugby WC, regained the Ashes from the best team in the world and yet, we still have this petty sniping and jealousy.

Its very sad really

The England side that won the world cup was in decline when they won it, yet Woodward picked many on the same players for the Lions tour seemingly purely on the basis that they were in his world cup winning side.

 

[Ex-Staffs Gull]

Mmmmmm

 

[Gritt23]

I just KNEW someone'd come out with something like that

Unfortunately, that can easily happen.

I watched the start of that Test with my son (4 years old), and after that tackle I kept booing (had to keep language down in front of the boy), explaining to him that the guys in blacks are filthy cheats.

Whenever a team does play sport in black he does tend to say to me.

"The blacks are bad aren't they daddy. Boooooo, cheating blacks, I want you to lose."

 

[Father Jack]

Everytime i see that footage it sickens me. O'Driscoll was slam dunked on his neck and was very lucky the injury was not a lot worse. This type of thing doesnt normally happen in rugby but it astounds me that the international rugby board plan to take no further action. What if this had happened in a football match!

 

[Simster]

That would have been the incompetant management team led by Woodward, the winner of the world cup then would it?

Isn't it strange how our colonial brothers and sisters can never accept that England do win something well every now and again. After all, we won the Footy WC and Rugby WC, regained the Ashes from the best team in the world and yet, we still have this petty sniping and jealousy.

Its very sad really

Sorry Dave, but Woodward was a joke. The tour cost something like £40m and he used about 50 players. That is ridiculous.

I'm beginning to wonder whether England won the WC in spite of Sir Clive, rather than because of him.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

I dont subscribe to that at all. Before the Lions Tour, almost every one said that Woodward was the man to lead the Lions....his record showed that he was that man.

Yes he did stick by tried and tested players, but he knew them. I hindsight(sp?) this was a mistake. Everyone critisised him for not picking more Welsh players, but Wales had one one grand slam...they beat England by a whisker, as did the Irish I seem to recall....in fact didnt the French only beat england by 1 point in that time. If Hodgeson had his kicking boots on, England may have won all the games in the 6 nations.

It is very easy to criticise sucessful managers, Alf ramsey took a hell of a stick when we lost to Germany in Mexico. he did not becaome a bad manager overnight...nor has woodward become a poor manager now.


NZ were awesome against the Lions.

 

[Icy Gull]

Sorry Dave, but Woodward was a joke. The tour cost something like £40m and he used about 50 players. That is ridiculous.

I'm beginning to wonder whether England won the WC in spite of Sir Clive, rather than because of him.

So the 7 years he was in charge when England went from being a reasonable if boring team and turned into stylish and exciting world beaters had nothing to do with Woodwards management?

How about the year before when the team were at their prime and regularly beat South Africa, Australia and New Zealand, maybe that was in spite of rather than because of ?

Woodward is an English hero and all you knockers can

 

[Simster]

So the 7 years he was in charge when England went from being a reasonable if boring team and turned into stylish and exciting world beaters had nothing to do with Woodwards management?

How about the year before when the team were at their prime and regularly beat South Africa, Australia and New Zealand, maybe that was in spite of rather than because of ?

Woodward is an English hero and all you knockers can

Fair point, although he did inherit our best ever team (probably). Still, his record does stand up...
Nonetheless, I wouldn't trust him to run another Lions tour. His decision to bring a tour party of that size was dumb and his team selection was fairly abysmal too. Oh, and we lost 3-0 having only drawn against Argentina thanks to a last minute penalty.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I want that tackle to still be an issue when the All Blacks get here - their players need to know their victory is forever tainted by the actions of two of their players. And those two players need to know we all saw it, we all know what happened, and we judge them accordingly as players and as people.

 

[Grendel]

So the 7 years he was in charge when England went from being a reasonable if boring team and turned into stylish and exciting world beaters had nothing to do with Woodwards management?

England's world cup campaign was anything but stylish and exciting.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

So the 7 years he was in charge when England went from being a reasonable if boring team and turned into stylish and exciting world beaters had nothing to do with Woodwards management?

How about the year before when the team were at their prime and regularly beat South Africa, Australia and New Zealand, maybe that was in spite of rather than because of ?

Woodward is an English hero and all you knockers can

Woodward has done an excellent job as England Coach, he admits that he was blessed with some of the most talented England players ever, he built them into a team that became world beaters. This does not exclude him from criticism wrt the lions Tour. He made a number of mistakes, the over reliance on England players who were still recovering from the world cup being one of them, especally as some had a very poor 6-nations. He failed to knit the players together into a strong team, and whilst I love to see the Welsh whinge and moan I do agree with them wrt Gavin Henson, he was the player on form and should have been one of the first names on the team sheet. Rugby changes fast, one season you defend flat, the next deep, one year it's big battering ram wingers the next it's small fast agile wingers. The All blacks learnt from the world cup, we didn't.
Loosing the tour was not really the issue, the issue was the manner in which we did it, and that fact that we became the laughing stock of Rugby trying to spin bad performances into good.

 

[Icy Gull]

Fair point, although he did inherit our best ever team (probably). Still, his record does stand up...
Nonetheless, I wouldn't trust him to run another Lions tour. His decision to bring a tour party of that size was dumb and his team selection was fairly abysmal too. Oh, and we lost 3-0 having only drawn against Argentina thanks to a last minute penalty.

Can't argue that it was a disappointing and poor tour. His selections were not the best early on and he did rely, understandably imo, on his past experiences. It was a mistake but he does not deserve the vitriol and scorn poured on him because of it. It is to be expected that the Irish, Welsh and Scots slag him off though

He was a Harlequin as well, which is in his favour imo

 

[Pavilionaire]

Woodward clearly made some errors in selection and motivation tactics but the players themselves under-performed, partly because the likes of Johnson, Dallaglio and O' Driscoll weren't there, so I think it is wrong to lay the blame at the feet of Woodward and his team.

This is a pretty decent NZ team, but I'm hoping for some revenge on Mealamu / Umaga for the spear tackle.

 

[wilbob]

I had to stop playing Rugby at a very early age as a result of a spear tackle which shattered my right shoulder! This was a week after getting my only Welsh schoolboy cap. I am still rather bitter about this after over 20 years! the guys who did it to me weren't even told off! I personally think anyone found guilty of such a tackle knows what they are doing is dangerous & should be prosecuted! As for Woodward........well let's just say he got lucky with the team he inherited for the World cup & ever since it's been a downward spiral as his better players retired. He got away with it for a while because Wilkinson pulled him out of the mire, (A bit like Jenkins did for Wales only even more so!) however without wilko the lack of decent management has been exposed! The best thing woodward has done for English rugby is to move to football!