'Addicts have to give up or lose benefits'

[Uncle C]

We have people on here who regularly boast about their drinking and drug taking.

Perhaps they have an opinion to offer.

 

[Mr Everyone]

I know entire families in Brighton who are all on the gear. Even when one of them dies, which is not uncommon, it doesn't make them stop.

They get caught shoplifting regularly, they go to court, and even when it's their 50th conviction, their solicitor puts on their most sincere face and tells the bench (with fingers crossed behind his back I presume) "Your worships, my client is extremely remorseful for his/her crime and is desperate to seek treatment for his/her addiction". The magistrates then smile benevolently and give them a token £50 fine, a drug treatment & testing order which is rarely enforced, and say "Don't do it again, you little tyke or we'll REALLY come down hard". Then the offender goes back out, steals something else to pay the fine and score more gear, and the circle begins again.

The drug treatment facilities are underfunded in any case, and even those who actually want to go through it don't necessarily get much support. Then when they actually get clean and get out, they're straight back out into the same part of society from whence they came, and the temptations are right back in front of them.

A lot of heroin addicts will die from an unintentional overdose long before they make the decision to get clean.

What's going on!! Reasoned, coherent and concise posts on NSC!!!

 

[Lady Whistledown]

For most people, this is the real drug problem.

It is indeed, because these are the crimes that are most likely to affect people on a day to day basis. Most people know someone who's been burgled, or had their car broken into or their bag nicked. It's kind of low level, high volume crime that doesn't necessarily ruin lives (well sometime it does with burglaries) but that costs the country a fortune to deal with.

 

[clippedgull]

It is indeed, because these are the crimes that are most likely to affect people on a day to day basis. Most people know someone who's been burgled, or had their car broken into or their bag nicked. It's kind of low level, high volume crime that doesn't necessarily ruin lives (well sometime it does with burglaries) but that costs the country a fortune to deal with.

It's a shame, residents of said homes don't have a right to shoot intruders f***ing brains out if caught.

Slowly and surely the problem will be solved.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

It's a shame, residents of said homes don't have a right to shoot intruders f***ing brains out if caught.

Slowly and surely the problem will be solved.

Well. Theoretically, you could. It would depend on the circumstances wouldn't it? We focus on the occasional case, such as that of Tony Martin, but there are numerous, unreported, incidents in which members of the public have used force on criminals and have faced no comeback whatsoever. Justice does, occasionally, prevail, I promise you. But it's not considered newsworthy so it doesn't make the papers.

I quote: "A person may use such force as is reasonable in the prevention of crime, or in the affecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders, suspected offenders, or persons unlawfully at large" (Criminal Law Act).

What is "reasonable" depends on the circumstances: if you were faced with someone in your house pointing a gun at you, or some such life threatening implement, you would be perfectly in your rights to use similar force to defend yourself. The reason Tony Martin got in shit was because the [thieving toerags] were leaving his house, unarmed, and he shot them in the back therefore couldn't claim self defence. And he was a bit mad. But if you woke up in the middle of the night to find a strange man in your house, in the darkness, you'd have no knowledge of what he was carrying therefore I imagine it would be reasonable to pick up a poker or whatever to defend yourself. If they then got twatted, well you'd have a pretty reasonable defence in my book.

PS please do not start randomly killing burglars on the basis of this post

 

[bhaexpress]

For most people, this is the real drug problem. Prohibition makes this type of crime inevitable, and it seems crazy that there is no rational debate in this country or indeed many others about how to to take the crime out of drug taking.

From the organized violence of the gangs and dealers down to the violent robberies of the user getting the money for their fix and the abuse of women in prostitution, prohibition has just been a monumental failure in both human and financial terms. Time for a rethink.

It's fair to say that the government are very having to get a lot of tax from tobacco and alcohol so why shouldn't drugs be available over the counter ? Will it make more people addicts ? Well does the fact that alcohol is available over the counter mean there are more alcoholics ? It could be. However if the profits from legal highs were taxed that would go a long way to funding treament you could say.

 

[clippedgull]

PS please do not start randomly killing burglars on the basis of this post

I promise

 

[Uncle C]

There is a case for allowing drug addict more benefits so they eventally kill themselves. One problem solved

 

[KZNSeagull]

It's fair to say that the government are very having to get a lot of tax from tobacco and alcohol so why shouldn't drugs be available over the counter ? Will it make more people addicts ? Well does the fact that alcohol is available over the counter mean there are more alcoholics ? It could be. However if the profits from legal highs were taxed that would go a long way to funding treament you could say.

Have to agree with you. If, as Edna thinks, 80% of "petty" crime is caused by people having to fund their drug habit, then regulation and legalisation has got to be worth a try. I see that there are calls for these "legal highs" around at the moment to be criminalised on the basis that a couple of people have died, but that argument seems strange to me. People die from alcohol abuse and alcohol related crime all the time, but there are no calls for alcohol to be banned. Double standards if you ask me.

 

[bhaexpress]

Have to agree with you. If, as Edna thinks, 80% of "petty" crime is caused by people having to fund their drug habit, then regulation and legalisation has got to be worth a try. I see that there are calls for these "legal highs" around at the moment to be criminalised on the basis that a couple of people have died, but that argument seems strange to me. People die from alcohol abuse and alcohol related crime all the time, but there are no calls for alcohol to be banned. Double standards if you ask me.

I don't know if it's an ideal solution but it's an option. The fact is that organised crime in any country has drugs and it's associated crimes as it's back bone nowadays. Prohibition in America was the biggest mistake they ever made as it not only made organise crime very rich and powerful which then made corruption widespread it also got a lot of people to start drinking for the sheer hell of the fact it was illegal. It also killed quite a few people killed by drinking mixtures that included wood alcohol and such like.

Okay maybe not ideal but people will always want to get high, it's not new. People will always gamble and will also always want sex. Well we have pretty much legalised gambling here so what about legalising brothels ? Seems to work in Germany and Nevada quite well.

 

[tonymgc]

Why not cut their benefits & invest the money saved on a workable, viable treatment programme rather than the underfunded half assed efforts made at the mo?

 

[Meade's Ball]

I pay taxes so that people can at least just get by and can receive the basic medical care we all deserve, no matter what their individual problem is. I don't pay them so that the government can be so threateningly selective of who they are willing to the basics to.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Okay maybe not ideal but people will always want to get high, it's not new. People will always gamble and will also always want sex. Well we have pretty much legalised gambling here so what about legalising brothels ? Seems to work in Germany and Nevada quite well.

I would do that too. Is it taxed in Germany?

 

[The Merry Prankster]

I pay taxes so that people can at least just get by and can receive the basic medical care we all deserve, no matter what their individual problem is. I don't pay them so that the government can be so threateningly selective of who they are willing to the basics to.

Esto.

 

[Nibble]

I don't think that addicts should be given benefits. My taxes should be going to people who are genuinely in trouble, not just ones that want to spend their easily claimed money on crack.

At work, I'll be looking after at least one addict every week, and it's a nightmare. We are often subjected to physical or verbal aggression from these low-lifes, and it just feels like a waste of my time and can often be terrifying for other patients and their relatives. Needless to say they often have to come in with police escorts, wasting their time as well, and then it turns out that they're getting paid benefits on top of it all! It's ridiculous.

Rant over! *Prepares to get flamed*

Whilst it is unacceptable to have to suffer violence at the hands of addicts, I have had the same myself, I also find it unnacceptable that you work for the NHS with that attitude. Addicts become addicts for thousands of different reasons, usually abuse and mental health problems. For example a woman I know of was continually raped by her brother, uncles and Stepfather and turned to heroin as an escape. You have to be a pretty soulless arse not to have sympathy or at least empathy for people with that kind of background. Addiction is a symptom of much deeper problems.

 

[bhaexpress]

I pay taxes so that people can at least just get by and can receive the basic medical care we all deserve, no matter what their individual problem is. I don't pay them so that the government can be so threateningly selective of who they are willing to the basics to.

The difference is though that what the government is saying is that if the want help fine, if the refuse it then they will be penalised. Not the big flaw here is that the government will no doubt use the underfunded and halfwitted thinking they use with the unemployed. The bottom line is that the treatment for drug users (and addicts of any kind) doesn't do much of a job,. However, at the end of the day people why try to keep in line be it with an addiction or unemployment are deserving because at least they're trying. People who don't want to tackle their problem or not go to work are a very different matter.

 

[bhaexpress]

Whilst it is unacceptable to have to suffer violence at the hands of addicts, I have had the same myself, I also find it unnacceptable that you work for the NHS with that attitude. Addicts become addicts for thousands of different reasons, usually abuse and mental health problems. For example a woman I know of was continually raped by her brother, uncles and Stepfather and turned to heroin as an escape. You have to be a pretty soulless arse not to have sympathy or at least empathy for people with that kind of background. Addiction is a symptom of much deeper problems.

What do you base that notion on ? There's statistics to back that up is there ? No it's just your usual bollocks.

 

[Nibble]

What do you base that notion on ? There's statistics to back that up is there ? No it's just your usual bollocks.

And therein lies the problem old bean. I put forward a theory that there may be a more human side to the problem, a notion that perhaps addicts aren't just everyday folk who decide to take heroin, that perhaps there are deeper issues present and to treat the addiction you may have to treat the person as well, maybe get to the bottiom of the reason they turned to addictions, a human element you might say and you, well you mention statistics? As long as that attitude prevails addiction cannot be dealt with successfuly.

 

[Alfred the greatx]

According to the 3 part TV program, my drugs war, the UN claim that you need to prevent around 60% to 70% of drug imports to have an impact at street level. We currently stop 1% of Heroin from entering the country.

The profits are so huge, even the death penalty would do little to stop it.
The criminals are so rich they can buy police officers, customs officials etc and our entire system is being corrupted by the almost limitless money they can throw around.

Prohibition has failed and we are not protecting our kids by pursuing this path any longer. Most adicts that die, will do so because the drug they use is either cut with a dangerous chemical, or it is much stronger than the think it to be and they overdose.

Drugs and prostitution must be moved into the light and legalised. The potential revenue from licences for the manufacture and processing by drugs companies, tax and VAT plus thousands of new jobs, would provide more than enough legal cash to boost the number of rehab places available, deaths would be dramaticly reduced as the goods would be of a known strength and quality and we can then begin to manage this blight on our society instead of thinking we just need to be a bit harder on them and they will all go away.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

I don't think that addicts should be given benefits. My taxes should be going to people who are genuinely in trouble, not just ones that want to spend their easily claimed money on crack.

At work, I'll be looking after at least one addict every week, and it's a nightmare. We are often subjected to physical or verbal aggression from these low-lifes, and it just feels like a waste of my time and can often be terrifying for other patients and their relatives. Needless to say they often have to come in with police escorts, wasting their time as well, and then it turns out that they're getting paid benefits on top of it all! It's ridiculous.

Rant over! *Prepares to get flamed*

Everything is Black and White isn't it ?. To tar all addicts as Low life is staggering. Maybe a lot of these people have had horrendous life events that you could not comprehend. Maybe a junkie Woman was repeatedly raped by her Father when she was a young girl. Maybe thats why she tries to block out the memories and pain. Have you ever thought to question why they are what they are ?. For a highly intelligent Woman you have genuinely shocked and surprised me.