Abortion?

[Tom Bombadil]

I am compelled to 'sink low' as you are clearly talking out of your arse. I don't suppose a sanctimonius bore like you has ever even tried to a consider a woman's viewpoint.

As stated I am a supporter of the right to abortion. I have a problem with it being refered to as a womens problem or that it's "a womens right to choose".

The fact is that fundamentally this comes down to what your opinion is on when human life begins. If you believe life begins at conception (as many christians do) then you must be against abortion, because then the act is murder.
If you believe life begins at some later stage (as I do) then abortion is not a problem.

If someone believes an act to be murder then they have every right to protest regardless of their gender.

Furthermore if you are pro-choice, this still doesn't discount men from having a say in the decision, not the final say, but at least they should be part of the process.

 

[JonC]

Actually, as you have repeatedly shown, you're ignorant. As a matter of fact my first wife DID have an abortion so please don't patronise people who are far more aware of the complications and issues involving abortion.

As you're not a woman how in the hell can you be so pompous as to decide what a woman's choice should be ? Maybe to protect yourself you should be chemically castrated and then you'll never have to confront this matter from a personal point of view.

Trouble is that if you do that you won't be the wanker you obviously are right now.

I love the way because that, because your wife had an abortion, you are able to express a view that I'm not. Obviously, because I don't believe in it, I can't have an opinion. Catch 22 perhaps?

As you're not a 24 week old baby who could survive in the real world without any assistance how can you decide that it's OK to kill that baby?

Resorting to insults now. In that post there wasn't one single reason why abortion should be allowed except you obviously felt it wasn't the right time to have a kid. It's life. LIFE. How can people decide to kill a kid so they can give birth at a time that is convenient to them? It's beggars belief in my opinion. Imagine if the kids you've got now had been killed because of abortion?

 

[beorhthelm]

No, I showed a picture from 12 weeks. But now you're being contradictory. You've now decided that 24 weeks IS too late. Before all you referred to was abortion being right. And if I don't know what I'm talking about - reading this stuff I've just copied and pasted

no. i never actually expressed an opinion before, merely highlighted the fundemental flaws and contradictions of your argument. And highlighting your concept that a baby comes out of the foetus.

 

[Easy 10]

Its an emotive subject that always causes arguments. No-one can preach one way or the other whether abortion is right or wrong - there are an infinate number of reasons and circumstances surrounding an abortion, so a straightforward "pro life" or "pro choice" answer is never going to fit the bill- its just not as simple as that.

Thankfully its not a choice I'm ever going to have to make. I'd hesitate before preaching the rights and wrongs of abortion to anyone, least of all a woman who is in the position of having to make that decision. Ultimately, I think she should have the right to MAKE that decision - the bottom line is, its HER body, so how can anyone have the right to take that decision away from her ?

 

[JonC]

What are you debating here? The 24th week, or the subject as a whole?

You stated earlier that you believe it begins at conception, and that you disagree with the morning after pill (presumably because this would "kill" after conception has occured).

You cannot make an argument like I've quoted if you're going that far back! A foetus is not going to survive on it's own after 72 hours, so out the window goes your statistical "murder" argument there. Use it if you're arguing for the 24 weeks to be changed, stick to another one if you're arguing against abortion completely. I can't stand the blunderbuss approach to a debate.

My opinion is that life begins at conception.

But I was just highlighting the weaknesses and flaws of other people's arguments who say that abortion is right because life begins when it can live in the outside world.

 

[DTES]

there are an infinate number of reasons and circumstances surrounding an abortion, so a straightforward "pro life" or "pro choice" answer is never going to fit the bill- its just not as simple as that.

Actually, I think it is. "pro-choice" is just that. It takes into account all of these "infinite number of reasons and circumstances", pro-life takes in none. No-one's preaching "pro-abortion", such that there should be rules under which abortion should take place. People are stating a belief in exactly what you say - that these "reasons and circumstances" are taken into account - that a choice exists.

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

So JonC - Say I was a very sucessful business woman in London that was really happy with her life the way it is, without kids, without a partner - and suddenly I get pregnant. I wouldnt be able to have time to look after and give a kid the education, love, and life it deserves, as I would travel all the time. Would it be fair to bring a baby into the world if i could not give it a life?

Take it another way, say you could not afford to have a baby? That you lived in a 1-bedroomed flat in Whitehawk and couldnt pay the rent even without a child there.

Its better to have an abortion and "kill" a foetus while it is in the womb than kill it outside the womb, or bring a child into the world that thefamily doesnt love because they were a "mistake".

To not have abortions kills women's life.

God forbid if your girlfriend/wife ever got pregnant by accident.

 

[JonC]

Its an emotive subject that always causes arguments. No-one can preach one way or the other whether abortion is right or wrong - there are an infinate number of reasons and circumstances surrounding an abortion, so a straightforward "pro life" or "pro choice" answer is never going to fit the bill- its just not as simple as that.

Thankfully its not a choice I'm ever going to have to make. I'd hesitate before preaching the rights and wrongs of abortion to anyone, least of all a woman who is in the position of having to make that decision. Ultimately, I think she should have the right to MAKE that decision - the bottom line is, its HER body, so how can anyone have the right to take that decision away from her ?

But is it HER body? It's that little baby's body. Personally I see them as two separate, detached beings.

My opinion of course.

 

[bhaexpress]

I love the way because that, because your wife had an abortion, you are able to express a view that I'm not. Obviously, because I don't believe in it, I can't have an opinion. Catch 22 perhaps?

As you're not a 24 week old baby who could survive in the real world without any assistance how can you decide that it's OK to kill that baby?

Resorting to insults now. In that post there wasn't one single reason why abortion should be allowed except you obviously felt it wasn't the right time to have a kid. It's life. LIFE. How can people decide to kill a kid so they can give birth at a time that is convenient to them? It's beggars belief in my opinion. Imagine if the kids you've got now had been killed because of abortion?

You are an idiot, I am fully aware of the fact that you can't have an abortion (maybe your mother should have though). The fact is that you've clearly never been involved with somebody who has or had to live with emotional conflicts involved.

The only insult is the arrogant asumption on your part that you know what's best for any woman, despite being man.

 

[DTES]

two separate, detached beings.

Correct. After the tube's been cut after birth.

 

[Trotster]

So we're allowed to discuss killing 12 week old foetuses but we're not allowed to post a picture of the same 'foetus' that will be killed?!

That is possibly the worst argument I've ever heard.

Discussion is one thing - posting pictures of it is another. You showed very bad taste and judgement as well as your insensitivity.

 

[tedebear]

The fact is that fundamentally this comes down to what your opinion is on when human life begins. If you believe life begins at conception (as many christians do) then you must be against abortion, because then the act is then murder.
If you begin life begins at some later stage (as I do) then abortion is not a problem.

It is true some people think this way but to be honest there is a load more issues to debate without this issues being raised.....as Easy 10 states it isn't as clear cut as either side would like it to be....everyone has their own reasons which in their case are decideing factors influencing their choice....

I say lets allow people to make their own choice freely - we as a society don't own the unborn children, and we certainly have no right to make a woman carry a child to term when she does not want to - this could potentially ruin someones life....

Its a personal choice and should legally remain that way..... the day politicians get involved in what goes on in my body is a sad day....

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

But is it HER body? It's that little baby's body. Personally I see them as two separate, detached beings.

My opinion of course.

But thats the problem, it isnt 2 lives, its one. The woman has to put her body through shit basically for 9 months, then afterwards with having to cope with the child.

 

[Easy 10]

But is it HER body? It's that little baby's body. Personally I see them as two separate, detached beings.

My opinion of course.

I just can't see how you can term an unborn foetus as being a "detached being" when it is growing within a womans womb. You are referring to the foetus as a seperate human being in its own right, and WITH its own rights.

I can't see it that way - but then we're back to the argument about at what point does a foetus become more than a collection of cells, before it can really be termed a child. And there's no black and white answer to that.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

As you're not a 24 week old baby who could survive in the real world without any assistance how can you decide that it's OK to kill that baby?

Not strictly true that is it. Ignoring the fact that all babies are unable to look after themselves , when abortion was originally legalised terminations were allowed until the 28th week because at that time that was the limit at which a child would survive.

 

[JonC]

I can't be arsed with the argument anymore. I'm outnumbered, and could do with getting a life.

But I think BAGs scenario about having an abortion because it might affect her wealth or because she can't be arsed using contraception.

That's my opinion. And my last word.

 

[tedebear]

I just can't see how you can term an unborn foetus as being a "detached being" when it is growing within a womans womb. You are referring to the foetus as a seperate human being in its own right, and WITH its own rights.

Agreed Easy - what I don't understand is how people believe they have a right to tell that woman what to do? Is it fair and just? I don't think so.....

 

[defrocked priest]

Pro Choice

 

[DTES]

JonC has gone now. So on to the next debate:


In a healthy relationship, the mother and father disagree over whether or not to keep an unborn baby. After birth, it could easily be argued that the father has equal rights, so should he have a say before birth?

Off you go guys....

 

[tedebear]

no he doesn't