Abortion?

[JonC]

you are defining life by saying that picture is a life. therefore your views are contradictory

What?

I've said all along that a baby is a life at fertilisation.

 

[JonC]

Please remind me why there are loads of kids in need of foster families/adoptions if there are all these people out there wanting to adopt.

Please remind me why there are so many people who can't adopt or have to adopt from abroad if there's such a huge surplus of kids up for adoption in the UK.

 

[caz99]

What?

I've said all along that a baby is a life at fertilisation.

yes then in a later post said ' who the f*** defines life' something along those lines.

 

[tedebear]

This is such a personal and emotive topic which is why it creates such heated arguments and discussions.....

I believe that this is such a personal issue that it should be a legally allowable decision made between a woman/couple and her/their doctor.

Many people fall pregnant when they aren't prepared, financially able or emotionally able to cope with it.....is it right to bring a child into this? I think a person should be given the right to choose.

I also believe there are too many children in this world who need care and love which is not available to them for many reasons....why bring more children into that equation....

 

[caz99]

Please remind me why there are so many people who can't adopt or have to adopt from abroad if there's such a huge surplus of kids up for adoption in the UK.

because there are strict rules and regulations regarding adoption and who can adopt

 

[JonC]

i dont understand how you end up comparing skin cells and sperm. Sperm are multi-cellular complex organisms that move by themselves in suitable conditions and also exhibit behavioural traits. Not really similar to ski then.

You *believe* life begins at fertilisation, yet discredit the existance of life before that point: that is your contradiction. Do you not consider bacteria or viruses to be life? How about Amoeba? They dont "fertilise".

I did not say what is and isnt life, i merely asked for definition, which it appears is based on *belief* rather than scientific precendent. As i said, you can define life at different levels, and indeed there is no actuall universally agreed definition.

So what your saying then is that sperm cells are alive? So basicallly, you're now agreeing that abortion is a killing of a life. There's one opinion changing over.

You're very last point - there is no agreed definition of life is spot on and means that the issue of abortion will always come down to belief. You say I'm contradictory because I don't believe sperm is life. Find me ONE half decent scientist who agrees that sperm should be classed as life. Whereas a lot of people (perhaps not a majority) believe that life begins at fertilisation (as I do).

If we're going to talk about contradictions; then how come babies have been known to come out of the foetus and live at 24 weeks? So, going by your definition - that is life. But you still agree with abortion?

 

[JonC]

yes then in a later post said ' who the f*** defines life' something along those lines.

Exactly, but my opinion is that it begins at fertilisation.

How many times do I have to say it?

 

[JonC]

because there are strict rules and regulations regarding adoption and who can adopt

But you agree that there are enough prospective parents out there?

Ergo, adoption is a viable way forward.

 

[beorhthelm]

...how come babies have been known to come out of the foetus and live at 24 weeks?...

How can i argue with someone with such a firm knowledge of the subject.

Actually i feel 24 weeks is too late, but just now your point was about 12 weeks. Could you please be a little more consistant too.

 

[bhaexpress]

Never. Because I'm not a Christian.

That all you can sink to? Argue with me by calling me, shock horror, a Christian?

I am compelled to 'sink low' as you are clearly talking out of your arse. I don't suppose a sanctimonius bore like you has ever even tried to a consider a woman's viewpoint.

 

[JonC]

No, I showed a picture from 12 weeks. But now you're being contradictory. You've now decided that 24 weeks IS too late. Before all you referred to was abortion being right. And if I don't know what I'm talking about - reading this stuff I've just copied and pasted:

23 WEEKS’ GESTATION

Infertility: A Nine Year Journey for Samuel
Susan-Adelle Wilshire Warren

Samuel was born at 1 pound 8 ounces when his mother went into pre-term labor. His parents had endured infertility treatments and miscarriages for more than nine years. While Samuel has some speech delays and swallowing problems, he is rapidly improving and is a happy two-and-a-half-year-old.

Anna’s Early Arrival
Craig A. Bright

At 1 pound 5 ounces Anna entered the world early due to Fetal Growth Retardation. While it is still too early to tell if Anna will have long term developmental obstacles, at two-and-a-half years old she appreciates life more than most. No one who knows Anna’s story would bet against her.

24 WEEKS’ GESTATION

Austin and Ashli’s Story: The World of Prematurity
B. Lynn Shahan

Now four years old, Austin and Ashli beat the odds to survive premature labor, surgeries, and low birth weight. Austin was 1 pound 8 ounces and Ashli was 1 pound 4 ounces at birth. Both children were less than 13 inches long. They taught their parents that “prematurity is a world you never know exists unless life takes you there.”

Bo: My Miracle Baby
Cori Layne Smith

After a miscarriage, Bo was conceived. He frightened his mother when she began to spontaneously abort him due to an antibody disorder. Bo proved he was a miracle by growing from 1 pound 3 ounces and 8 inches long to being the light of his parents life at one-year-old.

 

[JonC]

I am compelled to 'sink low' as you are clearly talking out of your arse. I don't suppose a sanctimonius bore like you has ever even tried to a consider a woman's viewpoint.

I don't suppose an uncaring prick like you has ever even tried to consider the viewpoint from the dead baby that has been denied the chance of life.

Imagine if your mum had an abortion - actually, I suppose it does have its advantages

 

[Hampden Park]

jonc, each and everyone of us have our views but at the end of the day it is down to the women who are pregnant that can decide the outcome of their pregnancy. if and when you become pregnant and you then have that choice, perhaps then you can come back on here and let us know what you decided. until that day comes......... let the women decide and shut the f*** up

 

[JonC]

Incidentally:

'A 1997 report showed that only 5 per cent of those born at 24 weeks survived'

So abortion at 24 weeks, going by YOUR reasonings, kills 5% of those it aborts. Is that not murder then?

 

[JonC]

jonc, each and everyone of us have our views but at the end of the day it is down to the women who are pregnant that can decide the outcome of their pregnancy. if and when you become pregnant and you then have that choice, perhaps then you can come back on here and let us know what you decided. until that day comes......... let the women decide and shut the f*** up

So the dead kids don't get a say?

 

[Trotster]

Wait a minute. When has this board even been totally about football. Unless the day before, after or during the game - nearly all posts are non-football. Go and have a look. And I didn't start this debate anyway.

I love how you say I'm trying to enforce MY opinions then go on to say: 'its the womans right to chose end of'. Don't you think that may be YOUR opinion and what you've just said is a load of contradictory bollocks?

yes, but how many people have posted pictures of fetus's on the board? Its distastfull, inappropriate and insensative.

And No, my opion is not condtradictorary bollocks - at the end of the day, if i did not want a child for what ever reason I may have, it would be my choice, as a woman, if i wanted the child, i would have it, if i didnt, i wouldnt. You as a bloke have NO idea of what women have to go through to make this very difficult descion.

 

[JonC]

yes, but how many people have posted pictures of fetus's on the board? Its distastfull, inappropriate and insensative.

And No, my opion is not condtradictorary bollocks - at the end of the day, if i did not want a child for what ever reason I may have, it would be my choice, as a woman, if i wanted the child, i would have it, if i didnt, i wouldnt. You as a bloke have NO idea of what women have to go through to make this very difficult descion.

So we're allowed to discuss killing 12 week old foetuses but we're not allowed to post a picture of the same 'foetus' that will be killed?!

That is possibly the worst argument I've ever heard.

 

[Hampden Park]

So the dead kids don't get a say?

kids go to school. unwanted foetuses (sp?) are aborted. decision made by the mother/parents/doctors not you!!!!!

 

[bhaexpress]

I don't suppose an uncaring prick like you has ever even tried to consider the viewpoint from the dead baby that has been denied the chance of life.

Imagine if your mum had an abortion - actually, I suppose it does have its advantages

Actually, as you have repeatedly shown, you're ignorant. As a matter of fact my first wife DID have an abortion so please don't patronise people who are far more aware of the complications and issues involving abortion.

As you're not a woman how in the hell can you be so pompous as to decide what a woman's choice should be ? Maybe to protect yourself you should be chemically castrated and then you'll never have to confront this matter from a personal point of view.

Trouble is that if you do that you won't be the wanker you obviously are right now.

 

[DTES]

Incidentally:

'A 1997 report showed that only 5 per cent of those born at 24 weeks survived'

So abortion at 24 weeks, going by YOUR reasonings, kills 5% of those it aborts. Is that not murder then?

What are you debating here? The 24th week, or the subject as a whole?

You stated earlier that you believe it begins at conception, and that you disagree with the morning after pill (presumably because this would "kill" after conception has occured).

You cannot make an argument like I've quoted if you're going that far back! A foetus is not going to survive on it's own after 72 hours, so out the window goes your statistical "murder" argument there. Use it if you're arguing for the 24 weeks to be changed, stick to another one if you're arguing against abortion completely. I can't stand the blunderbuss approach to a debate.