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9/11 : Ten Years?!
- Thread starter The Wizard
- Start date
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Conspiracy theories, are generally about control and feeling safe. To the American people in particular (to whom no event can pass without a conspiracy theory) while the thought is abhorrent, the fact their government or some other institution could have controlled and undertook an action is in it's own way reassuring rather than some random act committed by individuals.
With regard to the specifics of the collapse, I was always surprised at the time how the towers lasted as long they as they did following the impact of a jet liner full of fuel. The buildings were a structural skin tied back to a solid core, and while certain anchor fixings created weak points which in retrospect could have been better designed, it is hard to imagine designing for this kind of catastrophe. Had the jets hit higher up the buildings, the mass above may not have caused the progressive collapse, however at the temperatures that would have been created, even concrete would have started to lose it's structural stability let alone steelwork.
With regard to the collapse looking like a controlled demolition, in a way the jet impact created a similar set of conditions to a controlled demolition in that they effectively hit horizontally taking out a couple of floors, while the resulting fires acted around the circumference of the structure. Once a certain number of ties between the outer skin and the core failed, rather than a series of collapses, the structure reached a critical breaking point when all the mass above the impact zone could no longer be supported, hence while both collapses were slightly different (i.e. the first tower the top part is seen to lurch to the side, whereas the second comes down much more vertically) they are the result of the impact zone finally giving way to the mass above that creates the sudden collapse. The strength of the building in this case actually doesn't help in that both buildings above the impact zone remain intact as the collapse starts hence all the mass comes down at once.
With regard to the specifics of the collapse, I was always surprised at the time how the towers lasted as long they as they did following the impact of a jet liner full of fuel. The buildings were a structural skin tied back to a solid core, and while certain anchor fixings created weak points which in retrospect could have been better designed, it is hard to imagine designing for this kind of catastrophe. Had the jets hit higher up the buildings, the mass above may not have caused the progressive collapse, however at the temperatures that would have been created, even concrete would have started to lose it's structural stability let alone steelwork.
With regard to the collapse looking like a controlled demolition, in a way the jet impact created a similar set of conditions to a controlled demolition in that they effectively hit horizontally taking out a couple of floors, while the resulting fires acted around the circumference of the structure. Once a certain number of ties between the outer skin and the core failed, rather than a series of collapses, the structure reached a critical breaking point when all the mass above the impact zone could no longer be supported, hence while both collapses were slightly different (i.e. the first tower the top part is seen to lurch to the side, whereas the second comes down much more vertically) they are the result of the impact zone finally giving way to the mass above that creates the sudden collapse. The strength of the building in this case actually doesn't help in that both buildings above the impact zone remain intact as the collapse starts hence all the mass comes down at once.
I watched the interview with George Bush last night, which gave a moment by moment account of 9/11 through his eyes. He had, reluctantly, given the order for any rogue plane in the sky to be shot down, once the order had been given for every plane in US airspace to land at the nearest airport. He said he hated the thought that any such plane would be full of innocent American citizens, but felt that such an act may well save more lives than it cost. He said he was relieved that didn't happen, due to the heroics of the passengers on the fourth plane. He didn't look like he was acting. If the conspiracy theory that he did shoot down this plane is correct, then that involves all those poor young widows putting on Oscar-winning performances about the phone calls their husbands made to them in another programme and various interviews over the years. They didn't look like they were acting, either.
He looked like a teenage kid in the 2011 programme I saw. How old was he 10 years ago?
If you don't want to talk about conspiracy theories, why do you feel the urge to bring it up on an internet forum. 10 years is quite a long time to grieve.
I presume you worked for Cantor Fitzgerald. Who were your close friends there. Were you also working in New York during 9/11.
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There's a sick deluded American...
Seriously though, I think it's time to 'drop it', it happened and it was a tragedy, but I'm not sure what the annual precession of docu-dramas really offer?
Sussex Nomad
Well-known member
I didn't use the word 'conspiracy', I said theory and I explained why it may have been the case. I saw the Bush thing and if you believe politicians by their 'sincerity', best of luck to you.
I was working/living in the USA at the time (Chicago) and my comments at the time to the Americans I knew was that they should look very closely at why it happened and what prompted terrorists to target the USA rather than some other country. Maybe, just maybe if the USA had taken a more even-handed approach to the Israel/Palestine problem and put pressure on Israel to reach agreement over the issue of a Palestinian state there would not have been such hatred of America in Muslim eyes.
That Kevin Barret guy does manage to interview some amazing people.
Here's an interview he did with a woman living in New Zealand, who had an interesting empirical perspective of the actual footage of the towers collapsing. (skip the first 10 minutes to avoid the introductory bullshit)
http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/archive/Truth-Jihad-32k-012211.mp3
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Tricky Dicky
New member
I never said I was still grieving, and I didn't bring up the conspiracy theories - it had already been mentioned in the thread.
Anyway, I did indeed work for Cantors, by that point I'd been there for 6 years and did another 8 years after. I knew many of those lost very well indeed, quite a few were brits working over there, and I had worked in those offices a number of times.
drew
Drew
Personally I tend to ignore the conspiracy theorists because the select facts that fit their wacky ideas and ignore lots of others. I don't believe for one minute that the event was planned by the US government but they are almost certainly guilty of gross negligence in respect of the fact that there were warnings and in fact I understand that one of the most vocal members of government against terrorists left his post and took up a position as head of security at the twin towers where he lost his life. As for the actual collapse, there was some time ago a documentary questioning whether the collapse was due to a defect in the design or whether the strength of the design gave enough time for those below the impact area to get out and survive.
Norman Baker suck my lozenge
New member
And this from someone who thinks it's great that Boris(a politician) is contemplating driver less trains on the tube
.Thats interesting, according to this only one Brit died working for Cantor Fitzgerald.
CNN.com - September 11 Memorial
Sussex Nomad
Well-known member
And this from someone who thinks it's great that Boris(a politician) is contemplating driver less trains on the tube
What on earth has that got to do with sincerity and/or 9/11? I do worry about IQ's with some contributors here at times.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Norman Baker suck my lozenge
New member
Pardon Me sir,
allow Me to tug my forelock,your a gent aint no mistaking.
Norman Baker suck my lozenge
New member
PS,It has nothing to do with 9/11.
Sussex Nomad
Well-known member
Why don't you stay on topic you keyboard warrior halfwit? Always one tries to spoil a thread.
Dalos
New member
- Mar 2, 2009
- 343
Why you being a f***ing idiot about this ? Are you doubting TD's acount of things.
Also he doesnt say that many Brits died, just that he knew many that dies, and ALSO that many Brits worked there.
There is a difference.
Common as Mook
Not Posh as Fook
- Jul 26, 2004
- 5,634
One hundred million percent, THIS. It's unbelievable that so many people seem to fail to grasp this fact. By no means am I condoning what happened, but hundreds of years of mismanagement of the situation by the USA culminated in 9/11