[Albion] Zonal Marking at Corners

[Herr Tubthumper]

Burnley had 7 corners yesterday and the only time they scored was when they fouled a player who was man marking. Last season we had a pretty decent defensive record. Seems to work okay to me.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

We seem to like Zonal marking at corner but is it really working for us?

I am no expert of this but do know that in Dunk, Duffy and Webster, we have three of the best defenders in the PL when it comes to the arial battles. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me then that we just stand still and try to compete from a standing position against attackers having a run up.

I am happy for somebody to explain the theories of Zonal marking and what we should be doing better as this isn't working for us IMHO

I think the theory is that your best headers of the ball (Dunk, Duffy and Webby) will always be in the position you're most likely to concede a goal from, ie the edge of the 6 yard box, instead of being possibly dragged to less dangerous positions.

It is also a coaching reaction to the increasing popularity of the attacking team setting up for a corner in a "love train" where it's bloody hard to stay with a man with all the chaos

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Burnley had 7 corners yesterday and the only time they scored was when they fouled a player who was man marking. Last season we had a pretty decent defensive record. Seems to work okay to me.

Irrespective of your views on the Maupay Tarko incident, conceding 1 in every 7 isn't a good ratio.

I also think we have above PL average "winning the ball in the air" ability in our side, especially with Shane in.

We should be looking concede very very few from corners this season

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Isn't Maupay not going for the ball but just getting in the way obstruction? Zonal should be making sure you get the ball if it lands in you area not stopping the opposition getting to the contact area.

Surely Maupay is only doing something 'wrong' if Tarkowski has the ball? Otherwise, it's just 1 player without the ball running into another player without the ball. What makes it a foul is when someone uses the hands to physically shove another player to the ground!

 

[Worried Man Blues]

Surely Maupay is only doing something 'wrong' if Tarkowski has the ball? Otherwise, it's just 1 player without the ball running into another player without the ball. What makes it a foul is when someone uses the hands to physically shove another player to the ground!

Just Googled this before I dig myself in further!! Although to be fair he didn't move into his path......so I presume you can have a line of players and that stops everything

The Law goes on to state: 'Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the path of the opponent to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction by an opponent when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Irrespective of your views on the Maupay Tarko incident, conceding 1 in every 7 isn't a good ratio.

1) One can’t ignore the fact that goal shouldn’t have been given.
2) overall it’s not 1/7 though; I added we had a reasonable defensive record last season.

On balance it seems to be working to me.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

1) One can’t ignore the fact that goal shouldn’t have been given.
2) overall it’s not 1/7 though; I added we had a reasonable defensive record last season.

On balance it seems to be working to me.

It is 1 in 7 this season. The goal was given.

We had a very good defensive record last season but conceded plenty from set pieces. Some also won't be counted in the stats but wouldn't have been scored if we had defended the corner better, for example Maguire forcing the winning penalty against Man U at home. Anything from a second ball from a corner won't be counted either.

The evidence of my eyes is that we're shaky from corners. Moreso than we should be considering the aerial heft we have

I'm not dead against zonal marking, but the jury is out.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It is 1 in 7 this season. The goal was given.

We had a very good defensive record last season but conceded plenty from set pieces. Some also won't be counted in the stats but wouldn't have been scored if we had defended the corner better, for example Maguire forcing the winning penalty against Man U at home. Anything from a second ball from a corner won't be counted either.

The evidence of my eyes is that we're shaky from corners. Moreso than we should be considering the aerial heft we have

I'm not dead against zonal marking, but the jury is out.

True, the goal was given. But you can’t train the team for referring errors; an anomaly and it’s out of our control so I won’t lose any sleep over that.

As for 1/7....Maupay is 1 in 1.....bodes very well.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

True, the goal was given. But you can’t train the team for referring errors; it’s out of our control so I won’t lose any sleep over that.

As for 1/7....Maupay is 1 in 1.....bodes very well.

Long may that ratio continue

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[Stat Brother]

Despite not wanting to be I'm too much of a dinosaur to understand.

Man marking all the way or else their big boys just pick the zone which they think they can exploit the best.


There's absolutely no point saying 'but it was a foul'.
It wasn't deemed a foul last season when BDB was upended, it's even less likely to be a foul now.
They're not playing basketball out there, clearly you can't just stand there and take the charging foul.


Something else for Roberts to work on will be most of Burnley's corners being aimed at the far top corner.
Obviously a plan to nullify Sanchez' command and as it's resulted in a goal it'll be a plan everyone else will follow.

 

[Swansman]

It is 1 in 7 this season. The goal was given.

We had a very good defensive record last season but conceded plenty from set pieces. Some also won't be counted in the stats but wouldn't have been scored if we had defended the corner better, for example Maguire forcing the winning penalty against Man U at home. Anything from a second ball from a corner won't be counted either.

The evidence of my eyes is that we're shaky from corners. Moreso than we should be considering the aerial heft we have

I'm not dead against zonal marking, but the jury is out.

Conceded about average from set pieces. More than average with Ryan, less than average once he was shipped and Lamptey got injured.

Disagree that the team is strong in the air. The Sanchez and the central defenders are big, strong guys and Bissouma is always doing a good job in his zone but Maupay is probably the smallest starting CF in the league, March, Alzate and Gross dont really win headers, Lallana is a dwarf, same with Macallister Trossard wont win many headers either. Pretty much any opponent are going to have more 180+ cm players.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

In my book (which isn't important!) if he isn't even looking at the ball he is just stopping another player it could easily be obstruction and could risk a free kick in a tricky position. If that isn't obstruction I am not sure what is, if it is still a law anyway!

The rules say.

“Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.

All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.

A player may shield the ball by taking a position between an opponent and the ball if the ball is within playing distance and the opponent is not held off with the arms or body. If the ball is within playing distance, the player may be fairly charged by an opponent.”

If Maupay didn’t make a movement to get in his path, then it shouldn’t be obstruction. Maupay was just thrown to the ground because by standing his ground he was in the guy’s way. IMO I think we were hard done by and in another game the goal wouldn’t have stood.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Conceded about average from set pieces. More than average with Ryan, less than average once he was shipped and Lamptey got injured.

Disagree that the team is strong in the air. The Sanchez and the central defenders are big, strong guys and Bissouma is always doing a good job in his zone but Maupay is probably the smallest starting CF in the league, March, Alzate and Gross dont really win headers, Lallana is a dwarf, same with Macallister Trossard wont win many headers either. Pretty much any opponent are going to have more 180+ cm players.

Also had a fella at left wing back who probably didn't have to endure too many "shorty" jibes at school

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[maresfield seagull]

Conceded about average from set pieces. More than average with Ryan, less than average once he was shipped and Lamptey got injured.

Disagree that the team is strong in the air. The Sanchez and the central defenders are big, strong guys and Bissouma is always doing a good job in his zone but Maupay is probably the smallest starting CF in the league, March, Alzate and Gross dont really win headers, Lallana is a dwarf, same with Macallister Trossard wont win many headers either. Pretty much any opponent are going to have more 180+ cm players.

BDB is shockingly poor in aerial battles
Unless your stats prove me wrong

 

[amexer]

Never understood zonal marking. Surely if playing against Brighton the Maguires , Van Dykes etc work out zones Webster and Dunk are marking and position somewhere else. Am I over simplifying

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Never understood zonal marking. Surely if playing against Brighton the Maguires , Van Dykes etc work out zones Webster and Dunk are marking and position somewhere else. Am I over simplifying

That's what we're hoping for. Statistically a header from 12 yards has a hugely reduced chance of a goal than 6 yards.

Yesterdays goal showed we're not doing zonal marking well. Once tarko, ahem, "cleared" the blocker, (and you have to accept that often this will happen entirely fairly) there was a free header from 6 yards at the back post. This should never happen with zonal marking. We needed one more in the line

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[Herr Tubthumper]

Never understood zonal marking. Surely if playing against Brighton the Maguires , Van Dykes etc work out zones Webster and Dunk are marking and position somewhere else. Am I over simplifying

The flip is that teams using man marking can have their defenders dragged away to create space for others.

As an aside I just looked at last season’s stats and we conceded 10 goals from set pieces which puts us mid table. Obviously there’s always room for improvement but I’m not really seeing this as a problem area and I’ve not seen any compelling argument why man marking will improve upon this.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

A few have expressed a similar view on this but I don’t think having to get out of the way of someone running at you is part of the laws is it? Why did Maupay have to get out of the way because Tarkowski wanted the space he was in? Don’t get it at all, it’s not like he moved to block the run which would have been obstruction.

Is running with the ball straight through someone permitted? Pretty sure it’s not, you have go around them don’t you?

Those that have claimed that this could have been obstruction are wrong. To be obstruction a player has to move into the path of an opponent to impede them, this wasn't the case here as Maupay just stood his ground as he was zonal marking.

If the rule was applied as some appear to be indicating you could just steam roller your biggest players through a defensive wall at every free kick while chasing the flight of the ball.

It was a foul on Maupay and VAR last season would have pulled it up, clearly VAR Lite, not so much so!

 

[Icy Gull]

Those that have claimed that this could have been obstruction are wrong. To be obstruction a player has to move into the path of an opponent to impede them, this wasn't the case here as Maupay just stood his ground as he was zonal marking.

If the rule was applied as some appear to be indicating you could just steam roller your biggest players through a defensive wall at every free kick while chasing the flight of the ball.

It was a foul on Maupay and VAR last season would have pulled it up, clearly VAR Lite, not so much so!

My thoughts exactly. Adama Traore would be the most effective at this

 

[JBizzle]

I'll be honest, I have no problem with zonal marking primarily because there's a lot more too it than simply marking your zone. A lot of time and energy goes into coaching the players to effectively defend zonally and if you look specifically at yesterday, all 11 players were back in our box, and everyone (bar Chris Wood) in "the mixer" is surrounded by Brighton players. Tarkowski just steamrollered Maupay to get a header in. That's not a failure of zonal marking (in my opinion) just poor refereeing/defending depending on your viewpoint.

I guess it's easy to blame zonal marking as a concept when compared to man marking. After all, no goals have ever been conceded via a failure of man marking.