Zero-hours contracts. Are we, the consumers, partly to blame?

[Herr Tubthumper]

“The sort of employment being offered now, including zero-hours contracts, makes it quite scary for people going into the retail business,” he said. “All of us, as consumers, have to take some blame for that, because it is consumer pressure that leads to margins being cut and everybody looking at how they can do that, and I am afraid that employment is one of the affected areas. ”

Sir John Randall (Tory MP Uxbridge and South Ruislip)

http://www.theguardian.com/business...il-working-conditions-shuts-randalls-uxbridge

I agree with him.

 

[pastafarian]

i blame the unions more than consumers for zero hour contracts

 

[KZNSeagull]

I think there is a element of truth in that. Being in the retail sector myself, it is becoming harder and harder to predict sales - last year I was way up on the year before through to November, then December was 20% down. January will be 35% down. Being a one man band I can just about cope with that, but if I had several shops with loads of staff, I would be laying people off one minute, then hiring again the next.

At the end of the day, consumers will naturally seek out the best deal or, as some seem to nowadays, just sit at home and shop. High Street businesses will always struggle against that, particularly when in my sector (books), consumers can often buy something from Amazon etc cheaper than I as a retailer can buy it for! I would not be able to compete in the UK, that is for sure. The advantage here is that our Post Office is forever on strike and the exchange rate means that buying from Amazon in South Africa is not a goer at the moment. Our main online store is suffering too - being a large country, courier deliveries are not cheap. The main book chain in SA is outrageously expensive, because they only operate from Shopping Malls with obscene rentals. So if I am clever and careful with what I order, I can survive. Just. But I am not going to make a fortune, that is for sure.

 

[Blue3]

How can anyone get on the housing ladder when on zero hours contracts

 

[Pogue Mahone]

“The sort of employment being offered now, including zero-hours contracts, makes it quite scary for people going into the retail business,” he said. “All of us, as consumers, have to take some blame for that, because it is consumer pressure that leads to margins being cut and everybody looking at how they can do that, and I am afraid that employment is one of the affected areas. ”

Sir John Randall (Tory MP Uxbridge and South Ruislip)

http://www.theguardian.com/business...il-working-conditions-shuts-randalls-uxbridge

I agree with him.

I agree with him too. However, I don't see any possibility that consumer habits will change, so can only see the situation for retail workers getting worse.

Horrible things, zero hour contracts. More evidence of the erosion of employment rights that the unions fought hard for over many decades.

 

[severnside gull]

No. No we are not. It's the banks and the government jthat are to blame.
The banks and the governments who promote and reward corporate venality above all else.
They have created a culture where the individual counts for nothing except to pay exaggerated interest rates for mortgages that have replaced social housing in an uncaring society and to pay for vastly over-inflated energy costs in order to return a profit to "the shareholders". Your election vote has little value as the parties represent their own venal self interest above all else, while your vote as a shareholder counts for nothing against those of the corporate bullies and pension funds.

Suggesting that we take the blame is just another step in the journey.

 

[WildWood]

After struggling with casual contracts for a number of years, I switched to using zero hours contracts & it works perfectly for me & my team. When operating a casual contract, I would employ people at Easter, wave goodbye to them all in September - then start the whole process of re-recruiting & re-training at Easter again (due to the peaks & troughs of the events business). Switching to zero hours contracts means that I can keep people on, they can participate in all the various incentives & benefits that a permanent member of staff receive, & I can commit to further career progression & training with people that I know are going to stay. It's such a shame that the contract has had such a bad press as I will struggle if & when it gets taken away.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No. No we are not. It's the banks and the government jthat are to blame.
The banks and the governments who promote and reward corporate venality above all else.
They have created a culture where the individual counts for nothing except to pay exaggerated interest rates for mortgages that have replaced social housing in an uncaring society and to pay for vastly over-inflated energy costs in order to return a profit to "the shareholders". Your election vote has little value as the parties represent their own venal self interest above all else, while your vote as a shareholder counts for nothing against those of the corporate bullies and pension funds.

Suggesting that we take the blame is just another step in the journey.

This is an interesting point. I'm looking to buy over here and the rates I'm being quoted are 1.8-1.9% for a 15 year fix. Why are they so high in the UK? This is a genuine question and not a wouldn't happen in Germany quip. Can any experts explain why there is such a huge difference?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

“The sort of employment being offered now, including zero-hours contracts, makes it quite scary for people going into the retail business,” he said. “All of us, as consumers, have to take some blame for that, because it is consumer pressure that leads to margins being cut and everybody looking at how they can do that, and I am afraid that employment is one of the affected areas. ”

Sir John Randall (Tory MP Uxbridge and South Ruislip)

http://www.theguardian.com/business...il-working-conditions-shuts-randalls-uxbridge

I agree with him.

While consumers are probably partly to blame it's difficult to blame ourselves while the supermarkets continue to deliver hundreds of millions of pounds of profit each year and sit on millions of pounds of landbanks. They have chosen to lower their prices by hitting their staff rather than their shareholders.

 

[pastafarian]

This is an interesting point. I'm looking to buy over here and the rates I'm being quoted are 1.8-1.9% for a 15 year fix. Why are they so high in the UK? This is a genuine question and not a wouldn't happen in Germany quip. Can any experts explain why there is such a huge difference?

Demand? every **** wants to move to the UK .....have you not noticed?

 

[Surf's Up]

Zero hours contracts are used in many sectors to help organisations cope with the peaks and troughs of business. The causes of these peaks and troughs are multi factoral and include market fluctuations ( as described), high sickness levels, recruitment difficulties and seasonal fluctuations. These contracts can benefit both employers and employees, the latter because it allows them the flexibility to manage their domestic/personal commitments by giving them the flexibility to decide when they want to work. The problems with zero hours contracts stem from less than scrupulous employers who place overbearing conditions on how these contracts operate. There are several different contractual formats in the employment field however and these offer the employer and employee the same flexibility without compromising the employee's employment status. These include term time contracts, annualised hours contracts and "Bank" or "Pool" contracts. The key throughout is the question of employment status i.e, whatever the contract form does the employee have full employment status. Unfortunately most organisations do not have Personnel departments with the wit or expertise or organisational position to implement a more flexible or menu driven approach to employment contracts.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

While consumers are probably partly to blame it's difficult to blame ourselves while the supermarkets continue to deliver hundreds of millions of pounds of profit each year and sit on millions of pounds of landbanks. They have chosen to lower their prices by hitting their staff rather than their shareholders.

Given the tax-payer tops up the Tesco low-paid with tax-credits we get a hit as well. Indirectly we're paying more for our groceries than the advertised price. Why don't Tescos just charge the right price for their product, pay the staff the right wages and stop silly charade.

 

[Surf's Up]

So the answer to the question is yes, consumers are partly to blame but the key word here is "partly". There are many other factors to take into account. It is also unfortunate that politicians have seized upon these contracts as an arch-capitalist workplace evil. This totally oversimplifies the issue and gives them an easy political sound bite. A more constructive approach should be based on how Zero hours contracts could be improved while at the same time encouraging employers to consider other contractual models.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Given the tax-payer tops up the Tesco low-paid with tax-credits we get a hit as well. Indirectly we're paying more for our groceries than the advertised price. Why don't Tescos just charge the right price for their product, pay the staff the right wages and stop silly charade.

Agreed - strangely I believe Aldi ( yes, I know, it's German ! ) operate using very few zero hours contract staff so it can be done.

We should be careful not to demonise zero hours contracts though - when done properly they can be useful. When I was a student I worked using what would today be called a zero hours contract in hotels. I had no obligation to accept any shifts and they had no obligation to provide any shifts. If I felt like working I would ring up and ask if there were any spare shifts and if they were short of staff or had a big function they would ring me and ask if I wanted to work. It allowed me to work when I liked, around my studies and for a number of hotels at the same time. So they can work.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Demand? every **** wants to move to the UK .....have you not noticed?

I must admit I have not noticed swathes of people moving to the Uk to specifically get a mortgage.

 

[pastafarian]

I must admit I have not noticed swathes of people moving to the Uk to specifically get a mortgage.

did you miss the effects of the rental market and lack of housing too

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

did you miss the effects of the rental market and lack of housing too

So you are suggesting the huge difference is demand for mortgages, and lack of supply? How does UK and German supply of purchasable property compare? Supply seems in very short supply over here. And how does the demand on this supply relate?

 

[The Merry Prankster]

“The sort of employment being offered now, including zero-hours contracts, makes it quite scary for people going into the retail business,” he said. “All of us, as consumers, have to take some blame for that, because it is consumer pressure that leads to margins being cut and everybody looking at how they can do that, and I am afraid that employment is one of the affected areas. ”

Sir John Randall (Tory MP Uxbridge and South Ruislip)

http://www.theguardian.com/business...il-working-conditions-shuts-randalls-uxbridge

I agree with him.

No. No we are not. It's the banks and the government jthat are to blame.
The banks and the governments who promote and reward corporate venality above all else.
They have created a culture where the individual counts for nothing except to pay exaggerated interest rates for mortgages that have replaced social housing in an uncaring society and to pay for vastly over-inflated energy costs in order to return a profit to "the shareholders". Your election vote has little value as the parties represent their own venal self interest above all else, while your vote as a shareholder counts for nothing against those of the corporate bullies and pension funds.

Suggesting that we take the blame is just another step in the journey.

Odd to see you swallowing their transparent propaganda and siding with the forces of oppression on this one HT.

 

[pastafarian]

So you are suggesting the huge difference is demand for mortgages, and lack of supply? How does UK and German supply of purchasable property compare? Supply seems in very short supply over here. And how does the demand on this supply relate?

i have always been informed in countries like Germany Switzerland and Austria the preference has traditionally been to rent rather than buy,that would go somewhat towards answering your question

 

[m20gull]

Agreed - strangely I believe Aldi ( yes, I know, it's German ! ) operate using very few zero hours contract staff so it can be done.

But Aldi operate on shorter opening hours and a much lower staffing level. I doubt that zero-hours is a perfect solution but it must really help Tesco in providing staff for covering short-term absences and peak hours demand. So to some extent it is the consumer's fault for wanting late and Sunday opening and high levels of staff.