Ypres

[Dave the OAP]

Its been mentioned by others, but if you have not been to Ypres or Tyne Cot you really should find the time to go. Incredibly moving stuff.

As you walk into Tyne Cot the sheer size of the place is unbelivable, what is also unbelievable is the amount of graves with unkown soldiers not just the back wall.

We visited Etaples on the road to Le Touquet which has around 10, 000 graves of mostly british and commonwealth graves, with some german and locals. The area had quite a few hospitals and most of the dead were those who didn't make it out of hospital. That is a very moving place...designed by lutyens.

 

[cunning fergus]

Has anyone just been watching the programme on BBC2 commemorating the battle of pashendale? (Sp?)

It is possibly one of the best things I have ever watched on tv

It drew on passages from letters, interviews and first hand experiences of the soldiers. Music and actors reading passages from letters and diaries.

It projected interviews from the likes of Harry patch on the buildings in Ypres and you could not help to be moved.

Absolutely horrific waste of young lives.

Many volunteered to fight for a cause, they willingly sacrificed their lives on the alter of that cause.

It may not be fashionable to accept this position these days, but denying those who died fighting for a cause they believed in is an insult to their memory. War is terrible but sometimes necessary and in that context those who died were not a wasting their lives.....you could not be more wrong.

 

[5ways]

Many volunteered to fight for a cause, they willingly sacrificed their lives on the alter of that cause.

It may not be fashionable to accept this position these days, but denying those who died fighting for a cause they believed in is an insult to their memory. War is terrible but sometimes necessary and in that context those who died were not a wasting their lives.....you could not be more wrong.

Few willingly sacrifice their lives. WW1 was a war that was a totally unecessary catastrophe for all involved.

 

[cunning fergus]

Few willingly sacrifice their lives. WW1 was a war that was a totally unecessary catastrophe for all involved.

You are wrong millions volunteered on both sides, various reasons but national pride was a key element.

Don't believe me, then I recommend you study for a masters of First World War studies at Birmingham University and educate yourself.

Sadly WW1 was necessary.......a young belligerent Germany was on the rise and they wanted war. FACT.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Few willingly sacrifice their lives. WW1 was a war that was a totally unecessary catastrophe for all involved.

Conscription wasn't brought in until January 1916, and at first, only for single men. All those prior to that, were volunteers.

 

[5ways]

Sorry what I mean by willingly is not that many signed up but that they don't sign up to get mown down in a trench. Britain needing to join the war is a matter of debate.

 

[Dave the OAP]

You are wrong millions volunteered on both sides, various reasons but national pride was a key element.

Don't believe me, then I recommend you study for a masters of First World War studies at Birmingham University and educate yourself.

Sadly WW1 was necessary.......a young belligerent Germany was on the rise and they wanted war. FACT.

thankyou for putting us all right.

What was your opinion of women approaching men in the street to give them white flowers?

 

[dejavuatbtn]

It wasn't until I did family history research that I discovered my great grandfather died at Passendalle. He had only been over there for three weeks before he was killed by bomb shrapnel in October 1917 and is buried at 9 Elms Cemetery near the CCS where he died. Researching his life and his regiment was better than any history lesson I had at school.

I would say that most of those volunteering at the outset believed that "it would be over by Christmas" and had no idea of what they were commiting to. Many joined because it paid better than the meagre wages they were used to. I doubt if many joined on the basis of them being sacrificial lambs. Yeah, they ran out of volunteers half way through and then made suicide compulsory.

 

[cunning fergus]

thankyou for putting us all right.

What was your opinion of women approaching men in the street to give them white flowers?

That's ok, you are more than welcome.

Difficult to say, I try not to apply contemporary values to historical events. They were the times then, we find it difficult to understand now. It's not therefore a matter of right or wrong it was just what happened years ago.

 

[The_Viper]

I took a big WW1 tour when in Bruges, went to Ypres and a lot of other places on the way. Farmers still finding old shells and leaving them on the road for the army to pick up 100 years later. Some of those cemeteries definitely evoked a real emotional response from myself, the whole war is heartbreaking. Perhaps the best thing about the day were the amount of US tourists on the bus (probably 6 of the 12 of us) that were gobsmacked at the things they were learning that they had never been taught in the US, it's crazy to think they are having to learn things we were taught so young by going on a trip there. It was one of the best trips I have ever taken though and would recommend it to everybody.

 

[pishhead]

For anyone with an interest in the first world war give Dan Carlin's hardcore history podcast a listen. I believe the episodes are called blueprint for Armageddon.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

thankyou for putting us all right.

What was your opinion of women approaching men in the street to give them white flowers?

Sorry to be pedantic, but it was white feathers.

 

[blue'n'white]

I saw the programme last night and found it compelling and very moving viewing. In particular the visuals projected on to the side of the cathedral were superb.
I have not yet been to Ypres but this did make me think about going - I may well take a trip over there this autumn.

 

[Trufflehound]

I saw the programme last night and found it compelling and very moving viewing. In particular the visuals projected on to the side of the cathedral were superb.
I have not yet been to Ypres but this did make me think about going - I may well take a trip over there this autumn.

Not a cathedral, it's the Lakenhalle, a former cloth trading hall (originally medieval, but it had to be rebuilt from rubble after WW1). Significantly, however, today it houses the very poignant and excellent In Flanders Fields Museum, which is worth half a day of your time if you do visit.

On a more general point, and at the risk of introducing pedantry to a very sombre occasion, I've always wondered why we British insist on using the French name for the town. It's in Dutch-speaking Belgium and it's called Ieper. Surely calling it by the correct local name would be far more respectful to the people who live there and whose relatives lived and died there in the carnage. And Ieper is a bloody sight easier to pronounce than Ypres...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not a cathedral, it's the Lakenhalle, a former cloth trading hall (originally medieval, but it had to be rebuilt from rubble after WW1). Significantly, however, today it houses the very poignant and excellent In Flanders Fields Museum, which is worth half a day of your time if you do visit.

On a more general point, and at the risk of introducing pedantry to a very sombre occasion, I've always wondered why we British insist on using the French name for the town. It's in Dutch-speaking Belgium and it's called Ieper. Surely calling it by the correct local name would be far more respectful to the people who live there and whose relatives lived and died there in the carnage. And Ieper is a bloody sight easier to pronounce than Ypres...

Can I be even more pedantic and say the language is Flemish?

 

[Trufflehound]

Can I be even more pedantic and say the language is Flemish?

You can say it, but you would be wrong. The people are Flemish, but they speak Dutch with a funny accent.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Sorry to be pedantic, but it was white feathers.

......<sigh>

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You can say it, but you would be wrong. The people are Flemish, but they speak Dutch with a funny accent.

Yes, sorry. Flemish is a dialect.

The main Dutch dialects spoken in Belgium are Brabantian, West Flemish, East Flemish, Antwerp and Limburgish.

 

[Notters]

Just tried to watch this but not on iplayer. Any ideas?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Just tried to watch this but not on iplayer. Any ideas?

It was under W.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b0906hpg?suggid=b0906hpg