[Albion] "You're black and you stink" Rodriquez comment to Bong? - FA say not proven

[Beanstalk]

Was that the case here? If so then that's easy enough that on the balance of probabilities you can say he said it

Yes, in the Kamara case that is what happened.

To quote [MENTION=30352]McTavish[/MENTION] link to the article, Jonathan Liew, rightly asks the question of why someone would put themselves through the process of calling out a racist, being highlighted and questioned in the media, not getting a single thing mixed up etc. etc. only to be doing it for a big old joke and a laugh.

Bong should've been believed, Kamara should be believed, (unfortunately) the next footballer who falls victim to a racist comment should be believed. That's how you eradicate it.

 

[Live by the sea]

I certainly believe that Bong believes he heard a racist comment directed at him . The problem is , it’s sounds like it’s his word against the other player . It is possible in the atmosphere of a football game with a big crowd something could have been said that sounded similar . Get back your breath stinks could if said quickly sound like your black .

I’m not in any shape or form defending the Burnley player but it is not outside the realms of possibility .

Something which I do think should be taken into account in these situations where it’s one persons word against another is motive and previous history .

Has this player ever had a run in with a black player before , what’s his general demeanour at training etc . I’m not saying it’s clear cut but it might help indicate if it is more likely or less likely he said what Bong has said .

Difficult one .

 

[blue-shifted]

Yes, in the Kamara case that is what happened.

To quote [MENTION=30352]McTavish[/MENTION] link to the article, Jonathan Liew, rightly asks the question of why someone would put themselves through the process of calling out a racist, being highlighted and questioned in the media, not getting a single thing mixed up etc. etc. only to be doing it for a big old joke and a laugh.

Bong should've been believed, Kamara should be believed, (unfortunately) the next footballer who falls victim to a racist comment should be believed. That's how you eradicate it.

OK, in the Kamara case, yes the evidence looks very strong.

In other cases, I do think it's harder when it's one man's word against another, and as other people have pointed out there could be other explanations

Putting the burden of proof on the accused to prove they are innocent isn't something which happens in any other circumstances anywhere.

 

[keaton]

OK, in the Kamara case, yes the evidence looks very strong.

In other cases, I do think it's harder when it's one man's word against another, and as other people have pointed out there could be other explanations

Putting the burden of proof on the accused to prove they are innocent isn't something which happens in any other circumstances anywhere.

But you could argue covering your mouth while abusing someone is circumstantial evidence.

 

[Beanstalk]

OK, in the Kamara case, yes the evidence looks very strong.

In other cases, I do think it's harder when it's one man's word against another, and as other people have pointed out there could be other explanations

Putting the burden of proof on the accused to prove they are innocent isn't something which happens in any other circumstances anywhere.

Maybe not in a court of law. But if I was accused of making a racist comment at work and my only defence was "nah I'm a really nice bloke and he misheard me" I would not be hopeful of staying in the job without reprimand of any sort for a long time. Football is a privatised industry, and in any other privatised industry if an employee is accused of acting in a way that is damaging to the ethical position of the company, you'd be shocked that they stood by said employee. It raises the question of how much does football actually care about this issue to not punish their own when it does happen? (or in other words "Does Kiko Casilla, a proven racist, still have a contract and spot on the bench at Leeds?")

 

[Easy 10]

Kudela claiming he covered his mouth and said to Kamara "you're a f*cking guy” as opposed to "you're a f*cking monkey" really tells you all you need to know. It insults the intelligence. "You're a f*cking guy" - is that REALLY the best he could come up with ? Is he trying to claim Kamara mistook the word 'guy' for 'monkey' ? Pathetic.

Its as laughable a claim as that tragic inadequate urban cockpangle Matthew Simmons claiming that all he said was "its an early bath for you Cantona".

 

[Creaky]

Yes, in the Kamara case that is what happened.

To quote [MENTION=30352]McTavish[/MENTION] link to the article, Jonathan Liew, rightly asks the question of why someone would put themselves through the process of calling out a racist, being highlighted and questioned in the media, not getting a single thing mixed up etc. etc. only to be doing it for a big old joke and a laugh.

Bong should've been believed, Kamara should be believed, (unfortunately) the next footballer who falls victim to a racist comment should be believed. That's how you eradicate it.

I do believe Bong thought he heard what was a racist comment but, in the noise of a crowded stadium, I also believe it is quite possible, likely even, that what he heard wasn’t what was said. To punish a player for an alleged offence without any proof would, in my opinion, be going down a dangerous road.

 

[SAC]

OK, in the Kamara case, yes the evidence looks very strong.

In other cases, I do think it's harder when it's one man's word against another, and as other people have pointed out there could be other explanations

Putting the burden of proof on the accused to prove they are innocent isn't something which happens in any other circumstances anywhere.

Rodriguez had no previous (listed on Wiki) and had a number of black team mates at West Brom. I suspect that most believe Bong over Rodriguez because of the teams that they played for. If in the next match (for example) Dunk is accused by (for example) Pogba, who would people assume was telling the truth? Not that Barber would ever allow us to discuss it on here!

 

[Weststander]

I do believe Bong thought he heard what was a racist comment but, in the noise of a crowded stadium, I also believe it is quite possible, likely even, that what he heard wasn’t what was said. To punish a player for an alleged offence without any proof would, in my opinion, be going down a dangerous road.

Why did the JR go to effort of covering his mouth to say you “Breath ****ing stinks”?

He would’ve been in no trouble at all for that.

 

[Easy 10]

Why did the JR go to effort of covering his mouth to say you “Breath ****ing stinks”?

He would’ve been in no trouble at all for that.

Didn't he claim he was covering his nose ?

It doesn't prove he's a racist. It does prove he's a cranially challenged immature prick though.

 

[Worthing exile]

Why did the JR go to effort of covering his mouth to say you “Breath ****ing stinks”?

He would’ve been in no trouble at all for that.

Maybe he was holding his nose?

 

[Weststander]

Didn't he claim he was covering his nose ?

It doesn't prove he's a racist. It does prove he's a cranially challenged immature prick though.

(Snide)

 

[dangull]

As much as racism still needs to be tackled, its a lot better than in my younger days.
Some of the things that opposition black players were subjected to by the home crowd back then still make me cringe when I think about it now.

 

[Creaky]

Why did the JR go to effort of covering his mouth to say you “Breath ****ing stinks”?

He would’ve been in no trouble at all for that.

Was he covering his mouth or holding his nose? - looked like the latter to me

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

As much as racism still needs to be tackled, its a lot better than in my younger days.
Some of the things that opposition black players were subjected to by the home crowd back then still make me cringe when I think about it now.

I remember hearing a chant ( at Leeds) 30 odd years ago that was so bad that you'd possibly be jailed for singing it now.

 

[Weststander]

Was he covering his mouth or holding his nose? - looked like the latter to me

View attachment 135222

Both. Impossible to be lip read.

 

[Creaky]

Both. Impossible to be lip read.

Exactly which is why the charge against him was impossible to prove or disprove.

I think the most telling thing in the whole incident is the phrase that that Bong heard - “you’re black and you stink” - just doesn’t sound natural - “your breath f***ing stinks” sounds far more like the sort of thing that might be said in the heat of the moment.

 

[Weststander]

Exactly which is why the charge against him was impossible to prove or disprove.

I think the most telling thing in the whole incident is the phrase that that Bong heard - “you’re black and you stink” - just doesn’t sound natural - “your breath f***ing stinks” sounds far more like the sort of thing that might be said in the heat of the moment.

Who knows what goes on in some footballers small minds? Terry and Suarez managed to bring race into their insults.

 

[portlock seagull]

Who knows what goes on in some footballers small minds? Terry and Suarez managed to bring race into their insults.

Indeed. It’s all so pathetically cringe worthy at times watching grown men doing ‘whatever it takes’ to get at and under their opponents skin, put them off their game, wind up, cheat etc. It’s actually a bit strange when you think about it that certain insults and cheating antics are allowed or encouraged whilst others are widely condemned. Perhaps they should all just grow up, learn sportsmanship and civility and get on with the game they’re privileged to play

 

[Easy 10]

Indeed. It’s all so pathetically cringe worthy at times watching grown men doing ‘whatever it takes’ to get at and under their opponents skin, put them off their game, wind up, cheat etc. It’s actually a bit strange when you think about it that certain insults and cheating antics are allowed or encouraged whilst others are widely condemned. Perhaps they should all just grow up, learn sportsmanship and civility and get on with the game they’re privileged to play

Amen to that.

Sadly it'll never happen, because the game is infested with cheating dickheads.