[Albion] "You're black and you stink" Rodriquez comment to Bong? - FA say not proven

[Triggaaar]

I have seen plenty on my own Twitter timeline and on the message board I moderate on that think Bong misheard.

What board is it you moderate?

 

[Kosh]

Standing two foot away.

I'm kind of with you on this; but I guess background noise etc. and high intensity exercise i.e. your own breathing - it is possible the word crap (for example) may have been used here, BUT I'm unsure as to why you'd then feel the need to add the gesture... hmmmmm. Surely saying something like: you're a crap fullback, or words to those effect would be enough to get the result you wanted.

There's something to this I'm sure however, as I find it impossible to believe the FA would have charged JR without a serious case to present.

We shall see I guess :/

 

[Triggaaar]

Guesswork...but you haven't really cast aside your team loyalty have you

I haven't hung Rodriguez without a trial but that's nothing to do with team loyalty.

Lamie isn't calling you biased because you haven't hung Jay out to dry. You said:
"does that sound realistic that anyone would form that sort of sentence?

It's pure guesswork but my guess has always been that Bong has at best, misheard words or at worst putvsome extra spin on Rodriguez petulant and childish hand movement and you stink words."

That's the opposite of hanging him out to dry, you've already found him innocent. You've declared that at best (one end of the possibilities you're entertaining) Bong misheard, at worst (the other end of the possibilities you're entertaining) he's lied. Nowhere in your perceived possible realities is the concept that Jay could have been racist. So you've been completely biased, despite claims of putting team loyalties to the side.

If it was a Brighton player in these circumstances, would you automatically call him out as guilty?

No I wouldn't, but I wouldn't automatically claim his innocence either.

 

[seagulls4ever]

There's so much guesswork and assumptions in this thread. I doubt we'll ever know what actually happened, although you would think the FA would have some additional evidence to charge him.

Some years ago, Ramires of Chelsea thought he heard Mark Clattenburg say "shut up, you monkey" to Obi Mikel, but no one else heard it, including Obi Mikel himself, who was closer. Clattenburg was cleared. Still, Ramires maintains those were the words he heard.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-Chelseas-John-Obi-Mikel-with-misconduct.html

 

[fly high]

Looking at the original footage; JR looks to me like a man who knows full well he's said something utterly abhorrent and/or heat of the moment stupid... His face speaks a thousand words, terrified at first and then rapidly incredulous as in: I never, what!?! he's misheard me... I'm shocked by this... etc. Those first few seconds however, he looks plain scared. I wonder why that would be? The gesture alone?!? hmmmm I'm not sure... could be, might not be...

As it stands only two men potentially know the truth (or perhaps have convinced themselves of a version of it?!?), we may never find out... If the FA can prove guilt however, well, in my humble opinion his career should be over.

Time will tell, it always does.

Kosh

That is exactly what I thought too. The initial fear in his eyes made me think he knew he'd completely messed up & was expecting a red card.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Lamie isn't calling you biased because you haven't jung Jay out to dry. You said:
"does that sound realistic that anyone would form that sort of sentence?

It's pure guesswork but my guess has always been that Bong has at best, misheard words or at worst putvsome extra spin on Rodriguez petulant and childish hand movement and you stink words."

That's the opposite of hanging him out to dry, you've already found him innocent. You've declared that at best (one end of the possibilities you're entertaining) Bong misheard, at worst (the other end of the possibilities you're entertaining) he's lied. Nowhere in you perceived possible realities is the concept that Jay could have been racist. So you've being completely biased, despite claims of putting team loyalties to the side.

No I wouldn't, but I wouldn't automatically claim his innocence either.

Exactly....and i understand why he might take that view....its team loyalties getting in the way he just doesn't seem to realise it

 

[spence]

I'm kind of with you on this; but I guess background noise etc. and high intensity exercise i.e. your own breathing - it is possible the word crap (for example) may have been used here, BUT I'm unsure as to why you'd then feel the need to add the gesture... hmmmmm. Surely saying something like: you're a crap fullback, or words to those effect would be enough to get the result you wanted.

There's something to this I'm sure however, as I find it impossible to believe the FA would have charged JR without a serious case to present.

We shall see I guess :/

How did Bong know the camera was on him when he reported the incident to the ref at the time ? Even if he isn't found guilty of racism as his mouth is covered slightly by his hand. His other gesture could lead to unsporting behavior charge. Whatever happens he hasn't covered himself in any glory. Everything points to Bong telling the truth and i stand by that. He is so adamant on what was said.

 

[Hugo Rune]

As it stands only two men potentially know the truth (or perhaps have convinced themselves of a version of it?!?)

It is of course perfectly possible that both men believe their own story 100% and neither is lying.

Rodriguez may know 100% that he didn’t say it. Bong is obviously 100% sure he heard it (and I believe he thinks he heard it).

That’ll probably be the outcome IMHO.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Agree with all that.

I have felt all along that Bong has misheard. Don't think he's lied. I think the worst that's actually happened is Rodriguez has acted like a child with his actions.

The fact that the ref included the incident in his report would indicate that something unsavoury was said but he couldn’t clarify.
Far easier to ignore, the fact that he didn’t indicates much.

 

[Bodian]

Is there still any video footage of this anywhere, or has it all been deleted?

 

[seagulls4ever]

Is there still any video footage of this anywhere, or has it all been deleted?

[tweet]952653555034460162[/tweet]

 

[Triggaaar]

The fact that the ref included the incident in his report would indicate that something unsavoury was said but he couldn’t clarify.

I don't agree. Surely if Bong has made the allegation, the ref needs to include that in the report even if he didn't witness an offence?

 

[Bodian]

Another theory - he could be looking scared because he realises immediately what being accused of something like this would/could mean - whether or not he did say it.

 

[Eeyore]

Despite the thousands of words written only two possibilities remain- as was at the beginning.

1) Either Bong or Rodriguez is lying
2) Bong heard incorrectly.

No amount of speculation or assumption will change that.

I'd like to think it was the second option. But I don't know- and only Rodriguez actually knows what was said for sure.

 

[Buzzer]

I have seen plenty on my own Twitter timeline and on the message board I moderate on that think Bong misheard.

I agree about the abuse. However, Twitter is a sesspit at times and it's not representative of the vast majority of Albion fans.

Like everyone else on this board I've no idea if Rodriguez did actually say what was alleged but I think I'm with you in giving Rodriguez the benefit of the doubt on the basis that it's not just a case of "I'd never say that because some of my best friends are black". He's not got any history of this, he appears to have the backing of the black players in his team who give him a glowing character reference in that regard and he's fully aware that it would ruin his career and the words he's alleged to have said are odd to say the least. I know people say that things can be said in the heat of the moment but I'm sure most of us have had arguments with people from other backgrounds and not resorted to racism.

I'm sure Bong heard what he alleges and as I say I think it's a case of him mishearing but even if he did hear correctly, I can't work out for the life of me what this charge can hope to achieve because it's one man's word against another. I haven't heard anyone else saying they heard the conversation so if they find Rodriguez guilty on that basis then it would be a travesty of justice. His reputation would be in tatters.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Hi all

Baggies fan here, with a peace pipe in hand

Firstly, no matter which club you support, what a rubbish situation we find ourselves in. There isn't an outcome that I can see that will have a happy ending.

Secondly, if Rodriguez has said the alleged words he has been charged with, then he should get whatever the FA can throw at him. No question.

But, and there is a big but here. Until this is proven beyond doubt, he is still innocent and deserves a fair hearing just as anyone should receive.

When I first heard what Bong alleged Rodriguez has said, my first thought was surely he has misheard what was said. Does this sound like anything anyone would say, let alone a racist.

"You're black, and your breath stinks"

Seriously, cast team loyalties aside, does that sound realistic that anyone would form that sort of sentence?

It's pure guesswork but my guess has always been that Bong has at best, misheard words or at worst putvsome extra spin on Rodriguez petulant and childish hand movement and you stink words.

My guess is we will never know for sure and unless there is corroborating evidence for Bong or Rodriguez, this will end in ultimate stalemate and everyone will end up dissatisfied with the whole sorry affair.

To me it looked like Rodriguez said something, Bong reacted, and then Rodriguez did the breath stinks thing. As for the phrase "You're black, and your breath stinks" - thats not an actual suggested transcript is it? I don't believe I've seen anywhere the actual words alleged to have been said.

Thing about Bong is that he is such an under the radar player, just gets on with his job, never involved in anything unsavoury, never over-emotional, rarely says much, keeps himself to himself, just seems a supremely confident and calm player. Even in this case he didn't react violently or get into Rodriguez's face, just went to the referee and reported what was said. Since the incident he has just repeated his same statement, that he was racially abused and that shouldn't be allowed to happen anymore. Its very much in keeping with the man's character.

I'm not surprised that WBA and Saints and Burnley fans are all springing to his defence, thats the nature of football, team loyalties are not easily cast aside and I don't expect them to be. But as part of the only collective of fans in England who 'know' Bong, I can just say this feels incredibly unlikely to have been made up.

 

[Wellesley]

Have we got new rivals now? I'm bored of Palace and they stink.

 

[spanish flair]

Interestingly Dunk was next to them in the incedent and he spoke to the ref who kept telling Dunk to go away, so Dunk could have witnessed all of it

 

[Mackenzie]

You can understand why most footballers are reticent about reporting these types of things. It’s been an absolute shitstorm, with horrible abuse thrown at both players (although surprisingly it’s Bong who seems to have copped most of the flack). The simple thing to do would be to ignore it, keep it to yourself or just give the opponent a whack at the first opportunity.

You’ve got to admire Gaetan for having the courage to speak up. I’m hoping there will be good enough footage to provide proof of what has been said so it can be sorted out one way or the other.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

If Bong still wishes to proceed with the accusation (what is his gain other than justice?) and is without a history of dramatic falsehoods he will be (correctly) believed as the story looks like (unfortunately) all too common rascism and not a false accusation.