[Albion] You are the ref: Dale Stephens' challenge on Gaston Ramirez

[sparkie]

There is no point in going on and on regarding this tackle the end result was the match was a draw which was all Boro needed,end of story

Injustice shouldn't be swept under the carpet.

 

[Bozza]

Discussed on The Ref Show by Mark Halsey and Mark Lawrenson today. Verdict seems to be Stephens has been unlucky, and Dean gave the red based on the injury not the challenge.

https://youtu.be/P_PIsnEvcjA?t=1m36s

 

[Munchkin]

Interesting the comments about the FA panel and who it's made up of.

You would like to think if a player sits on that group of 3 we have a chance of the right outcome.

 

[Don Quixote]

The idea that it deserved a red is nothing more than a lie. The ref made a huge mistake and now the lie is being spun to defend referees in general. That decision might have cost us promotion and so they will do anything to make sure the lie continues. They have to protect themselves. It is a disgrace.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Discussed on The Ref Show by Mark Halsey and Mark Lawrenson today. Verdict seems to be Stephens has been unlucky, and Dean gave the red based on the injury not the challenge.

https://youtu.be/P_PIsnEvcjA?t=1m36s

Interesting. Much more intelligent discussion than Jeff Winter and the idiotic Middlesbrough fans. Maybe we do have a chance with the appeal, although I still think it's unlikely. Only thing I would argue with is Halsey still says it was a foul, which I disagree with.

 

[Bozza]

For no good reason I've just watched some of the game back because I was keen to see what had gone on for Stephens and Ramirez to be pushing each other, and, in the heat of the game at the Riverside, I couldn't recall what it was.

Gibson hoofs the ball clear from an Albion attack, and it drops towards Ramirez who has GG behind him. Ramirez backs in, allowing the ball to bounce twice before GG came over the top of him from behind and got his head onto it. Ramirez went down in a ball clutching his face. Play proceeds - Mike Dean felt no need to stop play or call for medical attention to attend to Ramirez. As Ramirez realises his fakery had fooled no one he gets up as Stephens, in close proximity, gestures for him to get up.

I wrote earlier that Stephens repeatedly mouths something at him and now I've seen it all I can see it's very clearly "What are you holding your face for?" Stephens asks this 2 or 3 times as the pushing takes place. It's a fair question: Greer was behind him when he won the ball.

When Dean calls them over, Stephens counts "one, two, three" pointing to different areas of the pitch in a way a referee might do when carding someone for repeated infringements. Without watching it all, and I have no desire to so, I can only assume Stephens thought Ramirez had also gone down for no good reason on two prior occasions.

When the key incident takes place the Sky commentator says: "Whatever contact there was from Stephens, you have to feel Gaston Ramirez is milking it a little bit." Clearly that wasn't the case, but it does indicate the commentator felt that Ramirez had been behaving "theatrically" in the game up until that point.

 

[GT49er]

There's no such thing as a legitimate studs up. If he'd taken the ball in the air with a side foot or his laces then it wouldn't be studs up.
If the ball is so high that you have to take it with the bottom of your foot and you end up following through on a player then you're going to get in trouble more often than not, that's just how the game is these days.

Would you care to explain how a player can get their laces on a ball three feet in the air? Specifically, and in a manner that is physically possible.

 

[LamieRobertson]

For no good reason I've just watched some of the game back because I was keen to see what had gone on for Stephens and Ramirez to be pushing each other, and, in the heat of the game at the Riverside, I couldn't recall what it was.

Gibson hoofs the ball clear from an Albion attack, and it drops towards Ramirez who has GG behind him. Ramirez backs in, allowing the ball to bounce twice before GG came over the top of him from behind and got his head onto it. Ramirez went down in a ball clutching his face. Play proceeds - Mike Dean felt no need to stop play or call for medical attention to attend to Ramirez. As Ramirez realises his fakery had fooled no one he gets up as Stephens, in close proximity, gestures for him to get up.

I wrote earlier that Stephens repeatedly mouths something at him and now I've seen it all I can see it's very clearly "What are you holding your face for?" Stephens asks this 2 or 3 times as the pushing takes place. It's a fair question: Greer was behind him when he won the ball.

When Dean calls them over, Stephens counts "one, two, three" pointing to different areas of the pitch in a way a referee might do when carding someone for repeated infringements. Without watching it all, and I have no desire to so, I can only assume Stephens thought Ramirez had also gone down for no good reason on two prior occasions.

When the key incident takes place the Sky commentator says: "Whatever contact there was from Stephens, you have to feel Gaston Ramirez is milking it a little bit." Clearly that wasn't the case, but it does indicate the commentator felt that Ramirez had been behaving "theatrically" in the game up until that point.

Did you watch the Birmingham Boro game a couple of weeks ago?..GS who is a very talented footballer was doing exactly the same thing and the ref just ignored him much to GS's annoyance

 

[kevo]

Interesting the comments about the FA panel and who it's made up of.

You would like to think if a player sits on that group of 3 we have a chance of the right outcome.

Not sure, but I posted this on another thread. It makes an interesting read:

What a red card appeal really means (seems they are not interested in whether it was the correct decision, just if the suspension is fair):

In two parts:

https://playtheadvantage.com/2014/02...eans-part-one/

https://playtheadvantage.com/2014/02...eans-part-two/

 

[Mancgull]

Boro fans on twitter seem unable to stop going on about it. Not entirely sure why - it's not their fault that the referee made an abysmal decision. In criticising Mike Dean's performance we're not having a pop at Boro.

Most right-minded Albion fans will also agree that Boro had the best of the first half and we'd posed little threat on goal. However, we had managed to equalise and that had shaken up both Boro's team and their support. Would we have gone on to win? Nobody knows or could say either way. We still faced a huge task, but at least we were equipped to attempt that task. In being reduced to 10 men in the manner we were, severely restricted our ability to have a good go.

Boro are a very decent and strong side, particularly at home with a raucous following. They've despatched many good Championship sides who had the benefit of 11 men. Having just the 10 men turned a difficult task into a near impossible one, and Boro closed the game out in the professional way you'd expect.

Exactly my thoughts. We were clearly second best to the point of the equaliser and we may well have gone to only draw or even lose with 11 men, but now we'll never know whether the 11 would have got a win.
However, what's really bugged me is the 3 game sanction. It's clearly ridiculous considering the divided opinion as to whether it was a sending off or not. The sending off alone seems more than adequate penalty for what looked at worse a dubious red.
We have to be clear what we want as the outcome of the appeal.
We'll never get it rescinded, but hopefully the FA will see sense and reduce the sanction to a lower number of games. One game would be the best outcome we could hope to get. That could make a huge difference to us.

 

[Doc Lynam]

Dicussed at 1:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_PIsnEvcjA&app=desktop

 

[Billy the Fish]

Would you care to explain how a player can get their laces on a ball three feet in the air? Specifically, and in a manner that is physically possible.

You can't.

The only answer is to not attempt to take a ball that's 3 foot in the air with the bottom of your boot, because if you catch the other player you're in trouble.

 

[Black Rod]

Never a red card and Dean has obviously made the decision purely based on the fact that Ramirez has ended up with a bullet hole in his leg. Ironic really given that a large percentage of our support felt Barton should have got the same treatment based on the marks he left on Kayal's leg

 

[Bozza]

Did you watch the Birmingham Boro game a couple of weeks ago?..GS who is a very talented footballer was doing exactly the same thing and the ref just ignored him much to GS's annoyance

I had it on, but I'll be honest I don't remember that.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Never a red card and Dean has obviously made the decision purely based on the fact that Ramirez has ended up with a bullet hole in his leg. Ironic really given that a large percentage of our support felt Barton should have got the same treatment based on the marks he left on Kayal's leg

Not true. A large percentage of our fsnbase thought Barton should have been sent off as he clearly stamped on Kayal. Meanwhile, Stephens clearly wins the ball and Ramirez is late on him and as a result is caught. The only similarity is we were cheated by a Premier League referee in both.

 

[kevo]

Another reason never to buy the Sun

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...n-Gaston-Ramirez-after-netting-equaliser.html

 

[Stato]

Interesting that Halsey is so open that referees are prone to changing their judgement when presented with a nasty looking injury. He seems to suggest that the referee is covering his own backside by thinking "That looks nasty. There might be a big fuss if I'm not seen to do something."

I'm suspicious of reports of Dean telling the players that he changed his mind because of the injury, but telling Hughton that his assistant advised him. If this is what he said it has the smell of an attempt to validate his error after the event. I would be concerned but, given Halsey's comments, not surprised if a referee's priority is to avoid being seen as making a mistake over being fair to the player and club involved.

The last time we had a ref judge the injury not the offence, the FA actually did overturn the decision:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/23619966

However, nobody corrected the disgraceful comments of Justin Edinburgh when he suggested that Brighton fans booed the injured player, when it was very obvious that the booing was aimed at the awful refereeing decision.

 

[sir albion]

Never a red and the red should be rescinded end of.

 

[Triggaaar]

Discussed on The Ref Show by Mark Halsey and Mark Lawrenson today. Verdict seems to be Stephens has been unlucky, and Dean gave the red based on the injury not the challenge.

Tw@ in the middle is an idiot.

 

[GT49er]

You can't.

The only answer is to not attempt to take a ball that's 3 foot in the air with the bottom of your boot, because if you catch the other player you're in trouble.

So if h ball is three foot in the air, you have to wait for it to come down?