[Cricket] Yorkshire cricket.end off

[Iggle Piggle]

In the age group I teach (U12s), some of our lads have made county (not Sussex). Of the 5 who made county trials, Only 1 of the lads is state educated and the rest are privately educated. In fact, there are only 2 in the team who go to state school my lad included. There is an obvious argument that this is elitist but if one were to lift the covers a bit - no pun intended - there are a few reasons why all levels of cricket have a high degree of privately educated kids.

1. There is limited to no hard ball cricket at state schools. In the 80s we didn't play with helmets but - rightly - that doesn't wash these days. The downside is that state schools up our way play it sparingly with soft balls. A world away from hard ball cricket.

2. There is a disconnect between local clubs and state schools. We don't go in to introduce the kids to cricket and it doesn't have the same pull as football for kids to want to go off the cuff. Given we all work full time, it's not easy and is reliant on volunteers. We've got 42 kids playing football in u12 and more knocking on the door. We can barely raise an 11 a side team and often have to play kids up an age group. Kids want to play football, it's only the ones with cricket mad dads that seem to get involved.

3. I've found one council owned astro square in the county so far. It's not ideal for kids to have a go like we did.

Some of our lads are playing Private school, County and club games weekly. Those kids are getting a lot better a lot quicker. Somehow or other, I think we need get the 7/8 years olds engaged earlier.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Definitely. That's what my partner and her mum have said to her dad. To be fair, he and the club have tried to evolve by trying to broaden the range of post-match activities and ensuring food meets any specific dietary requirements. From his point of view though, it doesn't matter what they try. Players turn up play and leave. Its a club he's been at since he was a kid so I can see why he thinks it's lost something.

During COVID, all teas were stopped and since then we joined a league where they were sacked off permanently. A jug of squash is as good as it's gets at our place. I personally thinks it's fantastic. Less moans about food, no washing up plates after a duck, no transportation of food from our club to the off site pitch and throwing limp cress sandwiches in the bin. Catering for everyone is impossible and thankless, I'm all for starting a ban teas movement to improve club harmony. it's a nuclear option but it worked for us.

 

[Eeyore]

During COVID, all teas were stopped and since then we joined a league where they were sacked off permanently. A jug of squash is as good as it's gets at our place. I personally thinks it's fantastic. Less moans about food, no washing up plates after a duck, no transportation of food from our club to the off site pitch and throwing limp cress sandwiches in the bin. Catering for everyone is impossible and thankless, I'm all for starting a ban teas movement to improve club harmony. it's a nuclear option but it worked for us.

I do reluctantly agree. Although some places have held out and tea is served. Hopefully Jevington is one of them.

 

[Jim in the West]

If you went to an Asante or Strormzy gig the crowd would probably be 99% black. We are different cultures, different things interest us. The crowd at the Amex is 99% white, nobody finds that a problem. To me watching Glasto the audience seemed overwhelmingly white but I would imagine a music festival in East London (if there is one) featuring Rap and Drill artists would probably have a very large BAME audience.

Maybe since the West Indies had their hey day Afro Caribbean interest in cricket has waned, but if you go to Edgbaston or Trent Bridge when England are playing Pakistan or India there will be a large percentage of Asian people.

My point was that London has a relatively high proportion of people with a “cricket-loving” heritage (around 20% have Indian/Pakistan/Sri Lankan/Caribbean heritage)…why don’t they go to Lord’s?

The Amex comment is a bit of a red herring - I just checked, and the population of Sussex is 94% white, so it’s not surprising that the vast majority of the crowd is white. (NB: you can obviously argue that the male/female ratio is hugely skewed at footie, but that’s a (slightly) different issue).

Lord’s is incredibly elitist and mono-cultural and it’s the centre of English cricket. No wonder there’s a problem.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

My point was that London has a relatively high proportion of people with a “cricket-loving” heritage (around 20% have Indian/Pakistan/Sri Lankan/Caribbean heritage)…why don’t they go to Lord’s?

The Amex comment is a bit of a red herring - I just checked, and the population of Sussex is 94% white, so it’s not surprising that the vast majority of the crowd is white. (NB: you can obviously argue that the male/female ratio is hugely skewed at footie, but that’s a (slightly) different issue).

Lord’s is incredibly elitist and mono-cultural and it’s the centre of English cricket. No wonder there’s a problem.

When the second Windies side visited after the war ( 1957 ) Lords and the Oval were heaving with West Indians, loud, excited and full of calypso. The first ' Windrush ' generation had only been on these shores a short time and they wanted to see their countrymen. This continued through the 60's/70's and 80's. They were a strong side and the first generation from the Caribbean watched them in droves. The noise levels were incredible. Chanting, chinking tin cans, banging drums and whooping with delight. First World Cup Final at Lords ( 1975 ) saw a high level of West Indians in the crowd. As the years have passed and second and third generations have grown up and the Windies have ceased to be the powerhouse side they were, interest has waned. Football has taken their interest more as the presence of many talented young black players fires their imagination and back in the Caribbean, cricket struggles to compete with American sports and athletics has caught fire, especially in Jamaica.
The Indian Sub Continentals are different. Their arrival in the UK was later than the West Indians and their interest and support of the national team hasn't waned. It is still their no.1 sport. When their teams are in town, they turn up in droves. At club levels, their playing numbers are huge. Outside of London and other strong Afro/Caribbean areas, you rarely see young West Indian men playing cricket.
If you look at the members at Lords ( who are the ones normally shown on tv ) sitting in the pavilion, you form the opinion that it is elitist but it isn't necessarily the case. For every ' eggs and bacon ' blazer there are far more spectators from diverse backgrounds around the ground.

 

[Berty23]

You assume incorrectly as I've read it 3 times. I just focused on one aspect of it in my post which was lack of diversity among decision makers in Cricket and suggested the ECB are now under enormous pressure to rectify and consequently I can see people being employed for their race and gender moving forward.

You should read Matthew Syed’s book called rebel ideas. It has a really good chapter on diverse groups making better decisions because you end up with less group think. For example 9/11 might well have been prevented by having people educated at a different place to “all the best” at the CIA who missed obvious clues that “less good” people from Muslim background would have spotted.

Often you get better decisions from diverse groups and that would certainly apply to the old boys club in cricket. I have been involved with cricket for over 30 years and got to know an ex head of the ECB reasonably well. It really is proper old boys club with “traditions” - how many women sit on the lord’s pavilion benches?

 

[Mo Gosfield]

My partner's dad is very active in his local cricket club in the midlands. Still plays himself in the over 60s and at county level too. He's commented several times on the difficulty the club have with players of Asian descent. My partner finds this very awkward and there's a lot of eye-rolling on her part and some heated discussions. I do get his main point though. Basically, the club survives on things like the post-match bar takings and other post-match events but the Asian players tend to turn up, play and leave, which is obviously fine but he feels it detracts from the ethos and community spirit of the club.

It's a difficult one. I must stress that he is in no way racist but I can see how issues like this may deter ethnic minorities. I imagine this situation is echoed at clubs around the country.

In the Thames Valley there are strong Asian communities, all along the M4 corridor. Starting in West London, through Southall, Hayes, Hounslow and onto Slough and Reading. In this area, many club sides are now predominantly Asian, particularly Pakistani. There are thousands playing every weekend. My own club, in this area, puts out 7 sides and there is Asian presence in every eleven. The captain of the first eleven is a Pakistani. This is a white, largely middle class, affluent, Thames Valley market town.
Cricket is the most diverse sport I have ever encountered. I played for years at a good level, with players from all over the world and never encountered any discrimination towards them from my teammates or opposition. There were more issues within white teammates than other ethnic groups.
Sussex, despite ' the Old School Tie ' syndrome embraced Ranji, Duleep and the Nawab of Pataudi years ago and were forerunners in diversity. For those looking for discrimination, you will find it in every walk of life and I have no doubt it is there in cricket but whilst cricket is taking a battering lets just stop and ask ourselves how many Asian men and women are playing professional football?
An Asian man I know, started on the coaching ladder but was forced to give up, as his path ' was blocked ' The opportunities were not available to him. Black coaches and managers find the same barriers. Cricket should be proud of its diversity, tackle issues where they exist and continue to be the community platform for all colours, creeds and ages.

 

[Bakero]

In the Thames Valley there are strong Asian communities, all along the M4 corridor. Starting in West London, through Southall, Hayes, Hounslow and onto Slough and Reading. In this area, many club sides are now predominantly Asian, particularly Pakistani. There are thousands playing every weekend. My own club, in this area, puts out 7 sides and there is Asian presence in every eleven. The captain of the first eleven is a Pakistani. This is a white, largely middle class, affluent, Thames Valley market town.
Cricket is the most diverse sport I have ever encountered. I played for years at a good level, with players from all over the world and never encountered any discrimination towards them from my teammates or opposition. There were more issues within white teammates than other ethnic groups.
Sussex, despite ' the Old School Tie ' syndrome embraced Ranji, Duleep and the Nawab of Pataudi years ago and were forerunners in diversity. For those looking for discrimination, you will find it in every walk of life and I have no doubt it is there in cricket but whilst cricket is taking a battering lets just stop and ask ourselves how many Asian men and women are playing professional football?
An Asian man I know, started on the coaching ladder but was forced to give up, as his path ' was blocked ' The opportunities were not available to him. Black coaches and managers find the same barriers. Cricket should be proud of its diversity, tackle issues where they exist and continue to be the community platform for all colours, creeds and ages.

Participation in the men's game isn't the issue raised by the report though. I think it said something like a third of recreational players are from ethnic minorities. Worryingly, it found high numbers had experienced discrimination. What's more, those minorities are not sufficiently represented in the leadership of the game. Aside from that, there are the issues with sexism and elitism.

As you say, the sport should celebrate its diversity and try to tackle the issues that exist. Likewise, football needs to tackle its own issues.

 

[Lenny Rider]

My partner's dad is very active in his local cricket club in the midlands. Still plays himself in the over 60s and at county level too. He's commented several times on the difficulty the club have with players of Asian descent. My partner finds this very awkward and there's a lot of eye-rolling on her part and some heated discussions. I do get his main point though. Basically, the club survives on things like the post-match bar takings and other post-match events but the Asian players tend to turn up, play and leave, which is obviously fine but he feels it detracts from the ethos and community spirit of the club.

It's a difficult one. I must stress that he is in no way racist but I can see how issues like this may deter ethnic minorities. I imagine this situation is echoed at clubs around the country.

As you say it’s a situation replicated at cricket clubs right around the country, it’s not racist it’s just how it is.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

As you say it’s a situation replicated at cricket clubs right around the country, it’s not racist it’s just how it is.

Subject to what I posted earlier re large numbers of Asian players in some Thames Valley Clubs, some clubs are finding it really hard to get the balance right. It is not uncommon to find some teams made up entirely of Pakistani players, even though you know those clubs come from areas of wide cultural mix and a fairly high white population. These players gravitate to where friends and acquaintances play and where they feel most comfortable.
The downside is that certain clubs gain a reputation for being almost exclusively one ethnic group, which starts to impinge on the community feel of the club and deters some from joining. I find that the most successful and popular clubs have a wide ethnic mix, irrespective of location.

 

[dazzer6666]

During COVID, all teas were stopped and since then we joined a league where they were sacked off permanently. A jug of squash is as good as it's gets at our place. I personally thinks it's fantastic. Less moans about food, no washing up plates after a duck, no transportation of food from our club to the off site pitch and throwing limp cress sandwiches in the bin. Catering for everyone is impossible and thankless, I'm all for starting a ban teas movement to improve club harmony. it's a nuclear option but it worked for us.

Our local club don’t bother either, but match fees stayed the same as when tea was provided

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Interesting discussion. When I played cricket the thought of tea was all that got me through an afternoon in the field. As an aside what does the thread title actually mean ?

 

[dsr-burnley]

None of the findings are particularly revelatory though, are they? As Jonathan Liew said in today's Guardian, "Turns out – no, seriously – that a sport created and codified for the purpose of allowing rich white landowners to bet against each other, and then exported around the world at gunpoint with the promise that it would civilise savage peoples, may not actually be that progressive."

Which raises the question as whether Jonathan Liew does genuinely believe that part of the reason for the current position is that the lawmakers of 1744 were rich, white gamblers, or whether he is just making a cheap and irrelevant dig at the game. It's all but 300 years ago and IMO the effect has worn off. (And whether it was exported at gunpoint or not, the gun isn't pointing at India or Australia any more and yet they still play.)

I think the report might at least have mentioned that the reason there are more private school cricketers than state school cricketers, is that schools that play cricket are more likely to produce cricketers than schools that don't play cricket. It's pretty obvious. A fairer comparison would be the number of private school pupils v state school pupils in the professional game, after removing the pupils at schools where they don't play cricket at a serious level.

 

[Brian Fantana]

It looks very likely that Colin Graves will be returning to Yorkshire CC as Chair, as he appears to be at the head of a consortium to take over running the club. The options appear to be either this rescue deal or the club ceasing to exist. His family trust are the main creditor of the club too, which further complicates matters.

It is a really tricky situation, as I doubt people would want the club to cease to exist.

 

[dazzer6666]

It looks very likely that Colin Graves will be returning to Yorkshire CC as Chair, as he appears to be at the head of a consortium to take over running the club. The options appear to be either this rescue deal or the club ceasing to exist. His family trust are the main creditor of the club too, which further complicates matters.

It is a really tricky situation, as I doubt people would want the club to cease to exist.

It was interesting listening to Rafiq being interviewed about it this morning - he wasn’t against Graves returning as he knows the future of the club is bleak without him (financially anyway) and there don’t appear to have ever been any alternatives. He also said he didn’t necessarily think Graves was racist.

 

[Triggaaar]

What would happen if the club was closed, and a new club started in its place, like Rangers?

 

[sagaman]

On diversity it’s well worth noting that Sussex is doing a massive amount with the cricket community in the Crawley area, many from South Asian heritage. This is involving time and investment.

 

[vegster]

I do hope the current takeover does not cause the return of Darren Gough to Talkshite....

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

What would happen if the club was closed, and a new club started in its place, like Rangers?

It depends on how the ECB views them.
If you're Durham and you need to be bailed out by the ECB then you get thoroughly shat on to discourage anybody doing the same (e.g. arbitrarily relegated, a load of points deductions for the following season and the right to host test matches removed).
On the other hand if you're Middlesex and you need a hand out then basically nothing happens.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

As an aside, I came across these clips of Fred Trueman bowling the other day.
Now, the main reason for watching this is to gaze lovingly at that bowling action.
But there's also the wider observation that '60s cricket looks much closer today's when it's shown from a sensible angle behind the bowler (the West Indies matches from about 1:50) than from a random position somewhere around third man as it usually seemed to be filmed from.