[Cricket] Yorkshire cricket.end off

[Eeyore]

I had a very different state school experience. I grew up in London and played club cricket for a fairly working class team, my state school and my regional area side under the County banner. In the wake of the 2005 Ashes there was a huge clamour to play Cricket in state schools and the schools league we played in was fantastically competitive (with a chunk of funding from the Lords Taverners).

I played with some sensational players, who had they been at private school (especially from a younger age), would have slotted into the County structure and probably have been able to make a solid career of things. The issue is access both in terms of equipment and time. Private schools usually finish their terms considerably earlier than state schools, and most counties cater camps/training/games towards those private school term times. That's before you even think about whether a state school can afford to have and maintain nets/bowling machines/new balls/bats/etc.

I think it's fair to say that cricket is less of a focus for state schools, but there are a ridiculous number of kids who are clearly talented enough to play in the academy system who get blocked from doing so due to a pre-existing recruitment bias towards the private schools.

I agree with all that (I sense you may be a bit younger than me).

I don't think it's an intended bias though. If you want honey you go to where the beehive is.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I've written in previous posts what I think and what I deduce. Nobody has mentioned quotas, but after the report the ECB will be under enormous pressure to have a more diverse workforce, hence why I feel recruitment will largely driven by quotas. I'm all for a meritocracy and I believe the best person should fill the position and if all of the best candidates for future roles within the ECB are BAME females then that's great.

I can only assume you haven't been paying attention to this report, and have dived off the deep end without looking into it. This has nothing to do with meritocracy (something I support - I am not keen on 'positive discrimination').

"We heard of women being constantly stereotyped, demeaned, facing predatory behaviour," Butts told BBC sports editor Dan Roan.

"We heard from women who are having to walk into score boxes and face signs that say 'no bras allowed'. This is 2023, not 1923."

Butts described "routine" use of racial slurs, including one 13-year-old on a talent pathway being racially abused and told to "go back home".

"We heard from a Muslim former player who had to endure the indignity of his team-mates laughing and joking about one of the players using the prayer mat to clean up after sex," Butts added."

 

[Beanstalk]

I agree with all that (I sense you may be a bit younger than me).

I don't think it's an intended bias though. If you want honey you go to where the beehive is.

I don't think any of this is intended bias though and why it actually needs to be tackled by quite broad changes. Cricket is great and should be more inclusive in general. It really shouldn't be a struggle to get people from all backgrounds involved in the game.

I think 2005 changed a lot. There was suddenly a bunch of kids watching this working class lad from Preston playing the thrilling cricket. Flintoff inspired loads of children to try the game out and feel that they could do it but those who did have a bit of talent, found a professional game with an ingrained ceiling that hasn't ever been tackled.

The one kid I played against regularly who did make it and is now a county regular and franchise player across the world, was moved from a state school to a historic private school with connections to the County Cricket Club to help facilitate his development. It wasn't because his state school didn't play cricket, they were one of the few that had fairly good facilities in the area (indoor and outdoor nets and a large well maintained pitch). It was because going to the private school was the pathway to becoming a professional.

 

[Cornwallboy]

I can only assume you haven't been paying attention to this report, and have dived off the deep end without looking into it. This has nothing to do with meritocracy (something I support - I am not keen on 'positive discrimination').

"We heard of women being constantly stereotyped, demeaned, facing predatory behaviour," Butts told BBC sports editor Dan Roan.

"We heard from women who are having to walk into score boxes and face signs that say 'no bras allowed'. This is 2023, not 1923."

Butts described "routine" use of racial slurs, including one 13-year-old on a talent pathway being racially abused and told to "go back home".

"We heard from a Muslim former player who had to endure the indignity of his team-mates laughing and joking about one of the players using the prayer mat to clean up after sex," Butts added."

You assume incorrectly as I've read it 3 times. I just focused on one aspect of it in my post which was lack of diversity among decision makers in Cricket and suggested the ECB are now under enormous pressure to rectify and consequently I can see people being employed for their race and gender moving forward.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I agree. There's no place for that shit in the game. And we should be long past it by now.

What I'm seeing in my chats with old friends and meeting folk in the game is a lot of cricket clubs, many here in Sussex, who are doing great work in expanding the game. Especially the women/girls game. I know that the behaviour described in the report would not be tolerated.

I'm not in denial here, I'm sure there are problems in many places. But phrases like 'rotten to the core' etc are an insult to many good folk designed for what purpose I don't know.

The cricket of today is unrecognisable to what I knew 40 years back. It's come a long way.

Good. No, you are always sensible and measured.

However the south and north of England are like different countries in some respects. This is merely an anecdote, but an ex GF of mine, from Lancashire, university educated, 20 years ago, thought it perfectly fine to use what we down south would have referred to as the 'P' word. And nobody up there batted an eyelid. I was shocked.

There are too many people piping up about other things now for it to all be nothing at all. Today I've heard about public school kids deliberately ignoring and intimidating state school triallists, bowling bouncers, etc, etc. And things like most cricket squads being disproportionately white (I posted the squad who play at Edgbaston (Warwickshire?) a year ago, perhaps in this thread - almost all white); it doesn't make sense unless non whites are passively (or actively) discouraged to engage.

As I posted back then, I don't expect the Harlem globetrotters to be representative of America at the national level and be 80% white/hispanic. But I don't expect a cricket team in a region where 30% of the population is 'Asian' to have no Asian squad members. It isn't as if people of Indian and Pakistani heritage have no historical or cultural affinity with cricket.

Anyway, the report is what it is. Judging by the reaction from those in the game, they all know it's correct.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You assume incorrectly as I've read it 3 times. I just focused on one aspect of it in my post which was lack of diversity among decision makers in Cricket and suggested the ECB are now under enormous pressure to rectify and consequently I can see people being employed for their race and gender moving forward.

Oh, you chose to focus on a trivial point and then 'imagine' what may happen? OK fair enough.

When you get a minute perhaps you might speculate on our behalf on how much more efficient the trains might be running today, and other possible benefits to society, had we lost the second world war.

 

[Cornwallboy]

Oh, you chose to focus on a trivial point and then 'imagine' what may happen? OK fair enough.

When you get a minute perhaps you might speculate on our behalf on how much more efficient the trains might be running today, and other possible benefits to society, had we lost the second world war.

if it's so 'trivial' why is it in the report?? Mate it's a chat forum in case you hadn't noticed.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

if it's so 'trivial' why is it in the report?? Mate it's a chat forum in case you hadn't noticed.

That's fine. You've made your point.

 

[Bakero]

My partner's dad is very active in his local cricket club in the midlands. Still plays himself in the over 60s and at county level too. He's commented several times on the difficulty the club have with players of Asian descent. My partner finds this very awkward and there's a lot of eye-rolling on her part and some heated discussions. I do get his main point though. Basically, the club survives on things like the post-match bar takings and other post-match events but the Asian players tend to turn up, play and leave, which is obviously fine but he feels it detracts from the ethos and community spirit of the club.

It's a difficult one. I must stress that he is in no way racist but I can see how issues like this may deter ethnic minorities. I imagine this situation is echoed at clubs around the country.

 

[Nobby]

What exactly is the 'bollocks' I'm talking?

I would suggest - maybe every word.

 

[Eeyore]

Good. No, you are always sensible and measured.

However the south and north of England are like different countries in some respects. This is merely an anecdote, but an ex GF of mine, from Lancashire, university educated, 20 years ago, thought it perfectly fine to use what we down south would have referred to as the 'P' word. And nobody up there batted an eyelid. I was shocked.

There are too many people piping up about other things now for it to all be nothing at all. Today I've heard about public school kids deliberately ignoring and intimidating state school triallists, bowling bouncers, etc, etc. And things like most cricket squads being disproportionately white (I posted the squad who play at Edgbaston (Warwickshire?) a year ago, perhaps in this thread - almost all white); it doesn't make sense unless non whites are passively (or actively) discouraged to engage.

As I posted back then, I don't expect the Harlem globetrotters to be representative of America at the national level and be 80% white/hispanic. But I don't expect a cricket team in a region where 30% of the population is 'Asian' to have no Asian squad members. It isn't as if people of Indian and Pakistani heritage have no historical or cultural affinity with cricket.

Anyway, the report is what it is. Judging by the reaction from those in the game, they all know it's correct.

You do make a valid point. I can speak for what I see in Sussex, but not elsewhere.

My anxiety was for those who have devoted so much to the game to bring it forward. I am in no doubt there are issues that still need addressing.

 

[Bakero]

You do make a valid point. I can speak for what I see in Sussex, but not elsewhere.

My anxiety was for those who have devoted so much to the game to bring it forward. I am in no doubt there are issues that still need addressing.

I get that. It must be very disheartening for the good guys and gals working within the game to here such a damning report. Hopefully, some positive changes are brought about as a result though

 

[Nobby]

It’s a really difficult one.
So many different issues to resolve in cricket.

For my part, it’s always been very obvious that both Cricket and Rugby Union are run by the old school tie and it’s very difficult for more normal common peeps to get a look in.
Reading the above posts just re enforces that view.
But for people who have struggled keeping village cricket alive all their lives, this report must be such a difficult read.

I think we have to distinguish between the County game and local club cricket.
Counties are run by ex Public schoolboys and will never change unless that structure is reformed.

It’s always been pretty obvious that Yorkshire cricket was just the tip of the iceberg.
All the other 17 counties would have been hiding behind their sofas when the first reports on Yorkshire came out. Trying to assess how to limit damage when similar accusations moved around to them.

And now here we are.

 

[Cornwallboy]

I would suggest - maybe every word.

Feel free to dissect my posts on the subject and tell me why 'every word' is bollox. Cheers.

 

[Beanstalk]

My partner's dad is very active in his local cricket club in the midlands. Still plays himself in the over 60s and at county level too. He's commented several times on the difficulty the club have with players of Asian descent. My partner finds this very awkward and there's a lot of eye-rolling on her part and some heated discussions. I do get his main point though. Basically, the club survives on things like the post-match bar takings and other post-match events but the Asian players tend to turn up, play and leave, which is obviously fine but he feels it detracts from the ethos and community spirit of the club.

It's a difficult one. I must stress that he is in no way racist but I can see how issues like this may deter ethnic minorities. I imagine this situation is echoed at clubs around the country.

I guess you have to evolve in that case. I think cricket (amongst many other things) has relied too heavily on old-fashioned habits to create a sense of community. I found it very difficult as a young teenager playing men's cricket (I started playing 3rd XIs at 12 and was playing good level league cricket by 15). The biggest change for me personally, and I know for many of my peers in the teams I played in, was when the ECB suddenly introduced their safeguarding policy around changing rooms - Adults must not change, or shower, at the same time using the same facility as children. It made things more comfortable and less awkward for a bunch of kids in an adult situation. Now, it meant that you lost some of that "changing room banter" or team talks behind closed doors, and everyone had to turn up a half hour earlier so we (colts) could have time to change separately, but it made the game feel a ton more inclusive to me.

In the case of alcohol, maybe evolving means the end of centring the post-match activities around booze - jugs, celebrations, etc. - and finding something new that everyone can join in on. I get that booze has always been a good money spinner for clubs but surely inclusivity guarantees longevity more than some old boys propping up a bar.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Removed

 

[Bakero]

I guess you have to evolve in that case. I think cricket (amongst many other things) has relied too heavily on old-fashioned habits to create a sense of community. I found it very difficult as a young teenager playing men's cricket (I started playing 3rd XIs at 12 and was playing good level league cricket by 15). The biggest change for me personally, and I know for many of my peers in the teams I played in, was when the ECB suddenly introduced their safeguarding policy around changing rooms - Adults must not change, or shower, at the same time using the same facility as children. It made things more comfortable and less awkward for a bunch of kids in an adult situation. Now, it meant that you lost some of that "changing room banter" or team talks behind closed doors, and everyone had to turn up a half hour earlier so we (colts) could have time to change separately, but it made the game feel a ton more inclusive to me.

In the case of alcohol, maybe evolving means the end of centring the post-match activities around booze - jugs, celebrations, etc. - and finding something new that everyone can join in on. I get that booze has always been a good money spinner for clubs but surely inclusivity guarantees longevity more than some old boys propping up a bar.

Definitely. That's what my partner and her mum have said to her dad. To be fair, he and the club have tried to evolve by trying to broaden the range of post-match activities and ensuring food meets any specific dietary requirements. From his point of view though, it doesn't matter what they try. Players turn up play and leave. Its a club he's been at since he was a kid so I can see why he thinks it's lost something.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Definitely. That's what my partner and her mum have said to her dad. To be fair, he and the club have tried to evolve by trying to broaden the range of post-match activities and ensuring food meets any specific dietary requirements. From his point of view though, it doesn't matter what they try. Players turn up play and leave. Its a club he's been at since he was a kid so I can see why he thinks it's lost something.

Are any of the newbies on the committee? Has he asked why they play and leave? It can be hard to disguise resentment and reluctance to change, and if the offer of Asian food (or whatever) is done grudgingly or patronizingly, people will see through it. And if everything is being done properly with a good heart and they still want to play and leave, but are otherwise good club colleagues, so be it.

 

[Silverhatch]

In the early 70s Private Schools were the preserve of the upper echelons of the establishment. State Schools were the preserve of the great majority of competitive local sport. Brighton & Hove had the grammar and secondary schools competing across a range of sports on Wednesdays and Saturdays. The 80s saw the new monied middle classes aspiring to private education for their progeny. Successive governments undermined the state system with both sides of the house having many members sending their own kids to education outside of the state sector. Dorothy Stringer in Brighton was stripped of its specialist sports designation because of lack of funding. Of course sport (outside of football) is f***ing elitist in this f***ed up country. BTW still think it’s a great country but it needs a political enema to SHIT out the c u n t s in no.10 and a complete ideological reset.