[Cricket] Yorkshire cricket.end off

[DJ NOBO]

Whether Yorkshire's institutionally racist or not, between this and Ollie Robinson's old tweets we can definitely say that their social media training needs sorting out.

You mean they need training in better covering up their true selves?
No, they need training in not being racist.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

The part of it that stuck in my mind is this:

"I discovered this on a much smaller scale only a few years ago. Towards the end of the last Ashes tour, an English journalist racially abused me in the press box of the Sydney Cricket Ground. Or, more specifically, in a corridor near the press box: a detail I now realise was hardly accidental. As the older journalist flatly denied making the remark he had made about eight seconds earlier, there was a devilish glint in his eye: the stomach-turning realisation that I would never be able to prove otherwise.

And in the end, he got away with it. Complaints were lodged. Grave, stony-faced summits were held. My version of events was scrutinised with a forensic laser focus. Did I have a grudge? Did I provoke him? Could I have heard something else? All he had to do, meanwhile, was deny everything. And – legally speaking – that was that. Game over."

The soft innocent tones of Jonathan Agnew, called him a c*nt at some point as I recall. Had an unpleasant spat with Lineker too. Under the friendly frontage of BBC TMS lies a rather nasty individual it seems...

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

You mean they need training in better covering up their true selves?

No, that's not what I meant. That was an attempt at humour on a thread without much to laugh about.
I accept that's not necessarily obvious.

 

[DJ NOBO]

No, that's not what I meant. That was an attempt at humour on a thread without much to laugh about.
I accept that's not necessarily obvious.

Fair enough.
There are some who think better media training is a solution though, and they’re not joking. That entirely misses the point IMO.
If anything social media has helped flush out the true problem.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

The soft innocent tones of Jonathan Agnew, called him a c*nt at some point as I recall. Had an unpleasant spat with Lineker too. Under the friendly frontage of BBC TMS lies a rather nasty individual it seems...

There was another article I considered including, before deciding that the post was overlong and confusing enough as it was.

In the 70s, as a 16 year old playing for Surrey 2nds, Agnew was apparently the only player on the field to tell the coach Fred Titmus (England and Middlesex player over 4 decades) that his loud and overtly racist behaviour towards his players was out of order.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-most-racism-committee-room-cricket-interview

Which bears out the point that sometimes less than perfect people try to do the right thing.

I don't actually know if it's Agnew being referred to in that piece by Liew. Obviously it's easy to assume that given the history there but unless you've seen it reported elsewhere it could be any number of people (sadly).

 

[Lower West Stander]

This is a great thread - shows us NSCers as a thoughtful bunch who can have interesting and rational discussion around very sensitive topic.

My four penn'orth for what its worth is that the "banter" was clearly unacceptable and that Rafiq played along with it at the time. The question for me is whether the race element was what drove him to "fit in" or whether it was just because he wanted to be accepted in the dressing room as a new player. He has given extremely powerful evidence which makes me believe it was very much the former and what he has done will hopefully make a huge difference in the future. I would argue that the ludicrous way YCC investigated the allegations have shown up more racism in the game than Rafiq himself. Gale and Moxon in particular seem to be total dinosaurs given their alleged comments are even more recent and reflective of the people involved in the game today.

But you can't just paint him as a complete innocent as has recently been shown by the anti-semitic tweets in particular. Those comments were to another Asian player - suggesting to me that institutional racism doesn't just exist in cricketing gammons. He has been remorseful but didn't mention the tweets when under parliamentary privilege. You can't have one rule for one and one for everyone else.

Cricket teams spend a lot of time together in changing rooms and travelling and the lads, lads, lads culture has clearly got out of hand, If Rafiq has done one thing it is to point this out and create some real focus in the game about what is a serious problem. For that reason he should rise above the scummy stories now appearing in the Daily Mail, but we need to accept that this is a problem which everyone in the game should be addressing - not just white middle aged men.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Fair enough.
There are some who think better media training is a solution though, and they’re not joking. That entirely misses the point IMO.
If anything social media has helped flush out the true problem.

Yes, although the apparent lack of any sort of guidance provided to young players in this regard does tend to back up the view that YCCC are completely useless and uncaring towards their players (not a difficult view to find evidence for even before all this came out to be honest).

I will say that, based on the messages I've seen, I'm inclined to file Rafiq's behaviour under "youthful idiocy that he's moved on from". That doesn't make it ok or mean I'm defending it, but I don't think it does anybody any favours to draw an equivalence between those messages and the wider problems at Yorkshire and elsewhere. There's a larger issue when so many people grow up and get through the education system and still think that sort of thing is funny.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

He has been remorseful but didn't mention the tweets when under parliamentary privilege. You can't have one rule for one and one for everyone else.

They weren't tweets, it's not entirely clear, but seems that they were private facebook messages between Rafiq and Ateeq Javid that someone screenshot and sent to The Times. So don't think they were ever in the public domain until now. Like David Lloyd's recently revealed text exchange, this is a 2nd or 3rd party revealing the contents of what were private messages I think. No excuse whatsoever, but a bit different from a public domain post or tweet.

I'd have to say going back through posts or tweets I might have made in the public domain over the last decade is one thing, going back through private message exchanges I might have had over the last 10 years is quite another. I was archiving, deleting some message threads recently to tidy up my Whatsapp and genuinely had some messages I had no recollection of making whatsoever.

 

[A1X]

I see Azeem Rafiq has something lurking in his past. Delighted for all the racists out there that they now get to claim it's null and void and the genie can go back into the bottle.

 

[Lower West Stander]

They weren't tweets, it's not entirely clear, but seems that they were private facebook messages between Rafiq and Ateeq Javid that someone screenshot and sent to The Times. So don't think they were ever in the public domain until now. Like David Lloyd's recently revealed text exchange, this is a 2nd or 3rd party revealing the contents of what were private messages I think. No excuse whatsoever, but a bit different from a public domain post or tweet.

I'd have to say going back through posts or tweets I might have made in the public domain over the last decade is one thing, going back through private message exchanges I might have had over the last 10 years is quite another. I was archiving, deleting some message threads recently to tidy up my Whatsapp and genuinely had some messages I had no recollection of making whatsoever.

Yes - but that doesn't take away the fact that he actually said it.

And it reflects an attitude he felt happy to reflect with a fellow player.....

 

[cunning fergus]

I have seen the photo doing the rounds. He isn’t in it though. Is there one with him in?

He is in the one I have seen as large as life…….like the one I have seen of him necking a bottle of vodka in a nightclub.

In the old days this would be satire……..what a time to be alive!!

 

[cunning fergus]

Yes - but that doesn't take away the fact that he actually said it.

And it reflects an attitude he felt happy to reflect with a fellow player.....

You need to keep up with the rules, they are being painted and updated on a day by day basis on the side of the barn….

All racists are equal, some racists are more equal than others.

 

[cunning fergus]

There was another article I considered including, before deciding that the post was overlong and confusing enough as it was.

In the 70s, as a 16 year old playing for Surrey 2nds, Agnew was apparently the only player on the field to tell the coach Fred Titmus (England and Middlesex player over 4 decades) that his loud and overtly racist behaviour towards his players was out of order.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-most-racism-committee-room-cricket-interview

Which bears out the point that sometimes less than perfect people try to do the right thing.

I don't actually know if it's Agnew being referred to in that piece by Liew. Obviously it's easy to assume that given the history there but unless you've seen it reported elsewhere it could be any number of people (sadly).

Do you think some people that don’t like other people (for reasons that do not fall into the ever widening bucket of racism) could try and smear them or find ways to discredit them?

I wonder if there are people like that out there?

 

[Grim up North]

Funny how the racist hypocrite that is Rafiq has suddenly gone very quiet. Good of him to totally ruin Michael Vaughans reputation and broadcasting career, what a lovely chap he is.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Micheal Vaughan/Yorkshire racism The BBC and TMS

Unless there is a court case pending is not M/V innocent until proven guilty ?

 

[Billy the Fish]

Usually is be saying the same thing but I think he's made a rod for his own back here.

If he'd just kept his mouth shut then it probably would've blown over, even with his slightly dodgy historic tweets.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Unless there is a court case pending is not M/V innocent until proven guilty ?

It’s a workplace decision not a court case. I can see their reasoning; huge discussions to be had over cricket in general during the Ashes, one which you can’t have with one of your key pundits.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Unless there is a court case pending is not M/V innocent until proven guilty ?

What law are you referring to, employment law?

The connection between his horrific tweets and what he has been accused of saying at Yorkshire would surely mean that any company employing him could suffer significant reputational damage. The BBC shouldn’t touch him with a barge pole but I suspect the role of cricket correspondent at GB news could be up for grabs?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Unless there is a court case pending is not M/V innocent until proven guilty ?

If the BBC want to drop him, that’s up to them. I can well see why, because his presence might deflect from other things going on……. Like Cricket.

And BT Sport want to drop him too, so if this is a lame kick the BBC thread, it is just that - lame. I’ve just read it’s more complicated for BT Sport because they are due to be taking Fox’s commentary (or something like that) which includes ….. Michael Vaughan.

 

[clapham_gull]

Unless there is a court case pending is not M/V innocent until proven guilty ?

Without commenting on the specifics (because I have no idea what they are) who really need to understand that most people who talk to you through a radio or a TV are freelancers.

The media industry spits them out in the same a restaurant or building site does. Most choose to work like that (in the media) because they are very well paid, but when the hammer falls you are out the door.