[Cricket] Yorkshire cricket.end off

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I echo your sentiments, sadly I think it's yet another one of those " Lessons need to be learned " episodes. Nothing will change. We have been here so often regarding, racism, sexism, anti-Semitism...The method and the style will change but it will still go on.

If the likes of Vaughan, when he's stopped vigorously denying everything, can take the 'bantz' out of his repartee, that will be movement in a positive direction.

If, on the other had, he gets a job on GB TV, where he can wink at Das Reich every day, while bemoaning the state of things....

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You may have a point, I can't stand the bloke so am probably predisposed to think he's acted like a c**t. (© Agnew, J)

More seriously, it is clear that the club that Vaughan was a senior member of had a fairly toxic culture where racist language was par for the course. We also know that those on the receiving end of the alleged comments are far more likely to remember them than those saying them within a culture where that language is considered 'the norm. Bearing all that in mind, I think that Vaughan is just digging himself a hole be being so categoric in his denial - Can he be that sure of something he did or didn't say 12 years ago? I don't think so.

All that said, and kind of to your point, he's f*cked anyway as it's impossible to disprove which, whatever you think of him or the situation, is kind of scary.

In the case of Vaughan there appear to be more independent witnesses (of single incidents) than there were for Jimmy Savile (where the many many episodes were mostly if not all single witness, no corroboration, episodes).

The main cricketer in question was on R5 a few moments ago. I've stumbled across a few fantasists and narcissists in my time. He is far from that.

 

[Bry Nylon]

The proposed whistle-blower's hotlines, internal reviews and 'drawing of lines' will only go so far.

A little like a house riddled with rot it feels like the only solution for English cricket is to dismantle the whole structure and build it again in a manner that is fit for purpose. Tinkering at the margins might address some of the symptoms - but it won't identify and solve the fundamental problems. All these old committees, boards and structures that administer the County set ups and the ECB etc need sweeping away and replacing with something that is modern, inclusive, transparent and accountable.

 

[LamieRobertson]

You may have a point, I can't stand the bloke so am probably predisposed to think he's acted like a c**t. (© Agnew, J)

More seriously, it is clear that the club that Vaughan was a senior member of had a fairly toxic culture where racist language was par for the course. We also know that those on the receiving end of the alleged comments are far more likely to remember them than those saying them within a culture where that language is considered 'the norm. Bearing all that in mind, I think that Vaughan is just digging himself a hole be being so categoric in his denial - Can he be that sure of something he did or didn't say 12 years ago? I don't think so.

All that said, and kind of to your point, he's f*cked anyway as it's impossible to disprove which, whatever you think of him or the situation, is kind of scary.

Thanks for your considered reply…I’m no great fan of his either..just trying a different angle without being labelled (which you haven’t).
Yes it is hard to be sure of what was said 12 years ago ….I remember reading that he had asked ex teammates/friends and they couldn’t recall that he had said what’s been alleged, but then by the nature of who he’s asked you’d expect that reply…..I’m not so sure making a categorical deny is digging a hole ..I guess that’s down to opinion.

…and yes re your last sentence, how does he recover?…..bbc knocked him off his show with Tuffers at the merest hint of involvement…does he still write for the DT?

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

You may have a point, I can't stand the bloke so am probably predisposed to think he's acted like a c**t. (© Agnew, J)

More seriously, it is clear that the club that Vaughan was a senior member of had a fairly toxic culture where racist language was par for the course. We also know that those on the receiving end of the alleged comments are far more likely to remember them than those saying them within a culture where that language is considered 'the norm. Bearing all that in mind, I think that Vaughan is just digging himself a hole be being so categoric in his denial - Can he be that sure of something he did or didn't say 12 years ago? I don't think so.

All that said, and kind of to your point, he's f*cked anyway as it's impossible to disprove which, whatever you think of him or the situation, is kind of scary.

I think Vaughan's outright denial has probably caused him more problems than the original comment would have done. He could have said he had no recollection of it but tried to show some understanding. As it is saying that being accused of making a racist remark is "the worst thing I have ever experienced", when the allegation was made by somebody going through everything Rafiq has, makes him look completely self obsessed.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I think Vaughan's outright denial has probably caused him more problems than the original comment would have done. He could have said he had no recollection of it but tried to show some understanding. As it is saying that being accused of making a racist remark is "the worst thing I have ever experienced", when the allegation was made by somebody going through everything Rafiq has, makes him look completely self obsessed.

Probably worth reading his statement in full then ..



“I categorically deny saying the words attributed to me by Azeem Rafiq and want to re-state this publicly because the ‘you lot’ comment simply never happened.

“Anyone who has viewed the Sky footage of Yorkshire’s pre-match huddle at the game in question in June 2009, and the interaction between the players, would find it hard to reconcile those scenes with the version of events that has been presented.

“I remember the match clearly because it was the first time in Yorkshire’s history that four players of Asian heritage had been selected in the same team. It was an important milestone for the county and it was also a moment of pride for me personally.

“At the time, I was a senior professional nearing the end of my career, but, having been the first non-Yorkshire born player signed by the county, it was also a sign of the progress that had been made during my time. I made a point of shaking all four players’ hands that day because I recognised it was a significant moment.

“In 2009, only weeks later, I wrote enthusiastically about this specific match in my autobiography, saying: ‘This is going to be the shape of things to come for Yorkshire, as many of our most promising players come from the Asian community and it ought to be a good thing for our cricket’.

“Given my view that the inclusion of Asian players in the Yorkshire team was a very positive and welcome development, it is inconceivable I would have made the derogatory comment attributed to me. It goes against everything that I have always believed; it goes against what I expressly said in my book only weeks later; and it goes against the Sky footage showing me specifically congratulating each of the players concerned.

“I have been lucky enough to enjoy a 30-year career in cricket, both as a player and a commentator, and I have never been accused of anything remotely similar. To be confronted with this allegation 11 years after it has supposed to have happened is the worst thing I have ever experienced.

“It is extremely upsetting that this completely false accusation has been made against me by a former team-mate, apparently supported by two other players. For some time, Ajmal Shahzad has been on record as saying that he never heard me say what has been suggested. I have been in contact with the six other players from that team and not one of them has any recollection of the remark being made.

“I fully accept that perspectives differ, and I have great sympathy for what Azeem Rafiq has gone through, but I hope everyone understands why I cannot allow this to go unchallenged or my reputation to be trashed unfairly.”


https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/new...fiq-allegations-backed-by-adil-rashid-3458513

 

[Bry Nylon]

Did Vaughan write that statement himself, or did he get Mike Dickson to write it for him, same as he wrote his autobiography for him?

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Did Vaughan write that statement himself, or did he get Mike Dickson to write it for him, same as he wrote his autobiography for him?

He must have written it himself, it's in first person.

Seriously though, it's a good thing he feels such great sympathy for what Azeem Rafiq is going through, or he might have done something like publically accusing him of lying or entirely fabricating a memory immediately before he speaks before a Parliamentary Committee.

 

[rippleman]

I'm not sure I could remember the details of any conversations I had with fellow fans at any specified match 13 years ago. Can any cricketers recall in such detail conversations with team mates this summer?

If you take everything Vaughan has said as gospel then, by implication, Rafiq made up the entire story and is a liar.

I know who I believe.

 

[BBassic]

[tweet]1461058046650691584[/tweet]

Vile.

Utterly vile.

Possessing backwards views is one thing but to actually give them form is quite another. What on earth goes through people's heads?

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Some people are just so stupid and so hideous of soul that they are beyond help.

But this is more akin to the abuse aimed at Rashford, Saka etc in the summer. Just a pitiful racist, probably emboldened by a government intent on prosecuting culture war at every opportunity

The issue with Rafiq is very different because it involved our structures rather than an unhinged individual.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Did Vaughan write that statement himself, or did he get Mike Dickson to write it for him, same as he wrote his autobiography for him?

Of course, none of us can really know who is telling the truth but one point that stood out for me was this sentence ..

“I have been lucky enough to enjoy a 30-year career in cricket, both as a player and a commentator, and I have never been accused of anything remotely similar."

... I would have thought that if Vaughan was the type of person to hold and openly express such racist intolerant views then there would be a number of different examples coming to light covering a 30 year period

 

[dazzer6666]

Of course, none of us can really know who is telling the truth but one point that stood out for me was this sentence ..

“I have been lucky enough to enjoy a 30-year career in cricket, both as a player and a commentator, and I have never been accused of anything remotely similar."

... I would have thought that if Vaughan was the type of person to hold and openly express such racist intolerant views then there would be a number of different examples coming to light covering a 30 year period

Next few weeks will be interesting.................

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Of course, none of us can really know who is telling the truth but one point that stood out for me was this sentence ..

“I have been lucky enough to enjoy a 30-year career in cricket, both as a player and a commentator, and I have never been accused of anything remotely similar."

... I would have thought that if Vaughan was the type of person to hold and openly express such racist intolerant views then there would be a number of different examples coming to light covering a 30 year period

Not a fantastic quote though is it, more a fairly vague soundbite, that, whether factual or not, neither proves nor disproves anything. It also has to be seen in the context of an old school organisation where a toxic culture apparently prevailed, and so no one was likely to say anything in any case.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Next few weeks will be interesting.................

Indeed, if there are more accusations/examples then his credibility evaporates but if there are none ......

 

[dazzer6666]

Indeed, if there are more accusations/examples then his credibility evaporates but if there are none ......

Genuinely no idea and don't have a view - really difficult to judge - I'm now just interested to see how this whole thing evolves. Haven't heard the last of it for sure. Terrible for the game but has to be fixed - interesting to hear Monty P on the radio yesterday saying he'd never experienced anything like it personally (they were probably too busy ripping the piss out of his batting and fielding)

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

From a completely parochial point of view, i'm hoping there's been strong leadership in Sussex CCC over the relevant time period and this sort of language/culture has been stepped on before it starts

 

[dazzer6666]

Oh for ****s sake……….

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59338118

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

https://news.sky.com/story/azeem-rafiq-apologises-for-making-antisemitic-comments-in-2011-12471813

Was always going to happen, people going through his history

 

[Smirko]

Oh for ****s sake……….

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59338118

Those in glass houses.....some might say.