Yet another school shooting in the States

[Juan Albion]

This time in Oregon. No idea if anyone has been killed but certainly wounded.

Is it me, is it just more reporting, or have mass shootings and shooting attempts become increasingly common lately? Have they achieved a critical copycat mass that makes them almost unstoppable?

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

It isnt just school shootings. Gun attacks certainly seem to be getting more common - this happened 2 days ago in Las Vegas - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/27757928

How many more lives need to be lost before gun control is brought in ?

 

[Juan Albion]

It isnt just school shootings. Gun attacks certainly seem to be getting more common - this happened 2 days ago in Las Vegas - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/27757928

How many more lives need to be lost before gun control is brought in ?

True.

 

[Insel affe]

Bulletproof blankets would protect students in case of school shooting...

Making money that's what everything is ever about in America....

 

[Stat Brother]

How many more lives need to be lost before gun control is brought in ?

Read this:-

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/01/us-usa-guncontrol-restaurants-idUSKBN0EC1W420140601

Then watch this:-




Then I think you'll find gun control is still a very very long way off.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Shooter in Portland has reportedly been killed. Should also add that 6 were injured in a New Jersey shooting last night too.

Shame the NRA pretty much hold all the cards.

 

[martyn20]

Fox News ‘expert’ reports breaking Oregon school shooting by blasting ‘anti-gun nuts’

Fox News resident psychiatrist and Medical A-Team member Dr. Keith Ablow used an active shooting situation at an Oregon high school to pre-emptively attack “anti-gun nuts” for wanting to talk about gun saftey laws.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/...on-school-shooting-by-blasting-anti-gun-nuts/

Total manics

 

[GreersElbow]

I'd like to state: I'm pro-gun and pro-gun control, but I must correct some of you in thinking there isn't any gun control. Detriot has some of the tightest controls and very high crime whereas Vermont has the least control with very low crime. (Just saying)

Schools have gun control, they have no-gun policies and often metal detectors and security guards to enforce this ruling. They're an easy target why? Because no one's armed at a school, if you're a psychopath hell bent on killing as many people as possible, the school's the primary target because a 10 year old kid is unlikely to carry a gun.

I have an issue with this entire anti-gun and pro-heavy gun control faction in the US, they completely fail to ignore the psychology of the mass murderers. It's as though their argument is solely based on Man + gun = mass shooting, rather than a complex state of issues of mental health problems and easy access to firearms. However, you'd only be removing a material object from the hands of the psychopath when there's still many methods of committing murder, only recently a mass stabbing in a train station in China was reported with many more fatalities than recent shootings in the U.S

If guns were actually the main problem here, then Canada would have very similar statistics in terms of gun crime, however. Only this week was the first major gun crime incident for a very long time. The real problem is the U.S mental healthcare system and U.S attitudes towards mental health, it's seen as a taboo and one that should be avoided. Access to mental healthcare appears (i'm no expert, only basing off my own research) to be a separate factor when families apply for health insurance, many don't give access to psychiatrists which are done through private psychiatric companies where either you pay out of pocket or what I've found is a separate insurance scheme for the families and another expense which many cannot afford.

The psychological profile of each and every one of these murderers are exactly the same, yet everyone just wants to talk about what they used to kill as opposed to WHY they killed.

The U.S needs to really reform everything if this is ever to stop, unfortunately, they're the most stubborn and arrogant *******s you'll find. These will continue.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

It isnt just school shootings. Gun attacks certainly seem to be getting more common - this happened 2 days ago in Las Vegas - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/27757928

How many more lives need to be lost before gun control is brought in ?

They love their guns too much to give um up!

 

[NorthStandSteward]

I'd like to state: I'm pro-gun and pro-gun control, but I must correct some of you in thinking there isn't any gun control. Detriot has some of the tightest controls and very high crime whereas Vermont has the least control with very low crime.

It's ridiculous to compare state-by-state data on gun crime in an anti-gun control argument.

Why don't you just compare gun crime in the US to European countries which have strict gun ownership laws?

Should paint a pretty clear picture.

 

[amexee]

However, you'd only be removing a material object from the hands of the psychopath when there's still many methods of committing murder, only recently a mass stabbing in a train station in China was reported with many more fatalities than recent shootings in the U.S

If the above is at all relevant, you have to question why every army in the world issues its soldiers guns, when they could have stuck with bayonets.

 

[GreersElbow]

It's ridiculous to compare state-by-state data on gun crime in an anti-gun control argument.

Why don't you just compare gun crime in the US to European countries which have strict gun ownership laws?

Should paint a pretty clear picture.

It's ridiculous? Elaborate, what's the difference in comparing a state to another state in a federal system with its own sovereign legislator with another nation-state with its own sovereign legislator.... I'm failing to see your point, if there's a point at all.

However, you'd only be removing a material object from the hands of the psychopath when there's still many methods of committing murder, only recently a mass stabbing in a train station in China was reported with many more fatalities than recent shootings in the U.S

If the above is at all relevant, you have to question why every army in the world issues its soldiers guns, when they could have stuck with bayonets.

Another post with an appalling point, your post is about as relevant as a chocolate tea pot in this discussion. If you don't think what I'm saying is relevant, re-read my post. If you still cannot see why it's relevant, i'll make it much more obvious for you.

The hint is the object used.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

It's ridiculous to compare state-by-state data on gun crime in an anti-gun control argument.

Why don't you just compare gun crime in the US to European countries which have strict gun ownership laws?

Should paint a pretty clear picture.

It’s not ridiculous at all - gun control at a Federal level will never happen in the States. Therefore individual States have elected to strengthen their own gun control laws. New York has some of the toughest gun control legislation in the US and the ex-mayor, Michael Bloomberg, will use $50M of his own money to try and take on the NRA.

I think one of the best late night political shows in the States is “Real Time” with Bill Maher. Last Friday Bill had a pop at the NRA and the recent outbreak of gun owners who turn up in ‘flash mobs’ at restaurants in shopping malls looking like they’ve just walked off a Rambo movie and scare the shit out of the locals. He then went on to say that this had backfired spectacularly as many of these chains like Applebees, Wendys etc have now banned anybody entering with weapons.

I agree these shootings will unfortunately continue, together with the inevitable hours of CNN coverage and candle light vigils

 

[beorhthelm]

It's ridiculous? Elaborate, what's the difference in comparing a state to another state in a federal system with its own sovereign legislator with another nation-state with its own sovereign legislator.... I'm failing to see your point, if there's a point at all.

his point is there are an awful lot of other differences between urban Detroit and leafy Vermont, to draw much direct conclusions on gun control. and gun control such as it is in the US, is a few orders of magnitude different from actual gun control in Europe.

 

[GreersElbow]

The issue isn't going to be resolved because the victims and potential victims are being ignored, I'll only reiterate that the biggest dilemma the U.S faces is how to proceed effectively whilst protecting individual rights.

And to NSSteward, I can blast comparison bar charts on here if you want. Here's a good example of why your comparison idea sucks.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compare/61/rate_of_gun_homicide/291 Colorado's population is almost 3x that of Estonia and the homicides with gun reflect population size. The laws in which you imply, make no difference.

his point is there are an awful lot of other differences between urban Detroit and leafy Vermont, to draw much direct conclusions on gun control. and gun control such as it is in the US, is a few orders of magnitude different from actual gun control in Europe.

Which is what I inferred, and then replied with the following: the comparison of Europe and the U.S makes no sense, two different cultures. I never explicitly made the comparison between the two as a strong point in my argument, a mere comparison. My main point is the mental health system and psychology of the murderer, both of which he completely ignored.

 

[Triggaaar]

I'd like to state: I'm pro-gun and pro-gun control, but I must correct some of you in thinking there isn't any gun control. Detriot has some of the tightest controls and very high crime whereas Vermont has the least control with very low crime. (Just saying)

When did Detroit's tight controls come in, and exactly how tight are they? Instead of cherry picking two places (I've always know Detroit as a deprived city) it would be good to see all cities, what their controls are, how long they've had those controls, and how many deaths or serious injuries there have been from crime etc.

Schools have gun control, they have no-gun policies and often metal detectors and security guards to enforce this ruling. They're an easy target why? Because no one's armed at a school

It wouldn't be difficult for a gunman to turn up to school acting like a delivery man, and shoot an armed guard dead before he could react. We don't have security guards at our schools, but we don't get so many mass killings at our schools.

I have an issue with this entire anti-gun and pro-heavy gun control faction in the US, they completely fail to ignore the psychology of the mass murderers. It's as though their argument is solely based on Man + gun = mass shooting, rather than a complex state of issues of mental health problems and easy access to firearms.

That's nonsense. The anti-gun faction don't think all gun owners are interested in killing innocent people. All countries have people with complex mental health issues, and the anti-gun faction want there to be less easy access to firearms.

However, you'd only be removing a material object from the hands of the psychopath when there's still many methods of committing murder, only recently a mass stabbing in a train station in China was reported with many more fatalities than recent shootings in the U.S

That's one case in a country with a population much larger than the US, and much less freedom (that's life, not access to weapons) and more poverty. Using one case to back up your argument is ridiculous.

I don't disagree with your points about attitudes towards and help for those with mental health issues though.

 

[GreersElbow]

When did Detroit's tight controls come in, and exactly how tight are they? Instead of cherry picking two places (I've always know Detroit as a deprived city) it would be good to see all cities, what their controls are, how long they've had those controls, and how many deaths or serious injuries there have been from crime etc.

Allow me some time and I could produce some results for you. There's a difference between the two, one's a state the other a city. To emphasis that Detroit as a whole has a larger problem than Vermont does. But again, as stated. This was not intended to really be a main point in the argument.

It wouldn't be difficult for a gunman to turn up to school acting like a delivery man, and shoot an armed guard dead before he could react. We don't have security guards at our schools, but we don't get so many mass killings at our schools.

Nope, but we don't have history of a constitution that allows us to purchase plenty of firearms and in some states, what ever weapon we want. Comparing our country to the U.S is fallacious. 1) Historical and political reasoning: we don't have the historical constitution or legislation giving us right to bear arms in the same way the U.S did/does.
2) We're not bought up with guns, the U.S is. Gun culture is a major part of their culture, right or wrong, damaging or not. It's not appropriate to compare the two countries, we've had kids in gangs bring guns and knives into our schools, there's nothing to suggest that current regulation and control would prevent a school shooting here. Dunblane was the only one, whilst use and owning firearms afterwards were restricted, we've not seen a huge decline in gun crime relative to population that is. Even before the massive restrictions in 1997, we still had few shootings on a scale comparable to the U.S. Hungerford being one, and guess what the #1 problem was! You guessed it, mental health.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives....rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs07/hosb0207.pdf Here's a 2006 report on the issue, I cannot for the life of me find an up to date one for some reason. However, note: gun crime in general has actually increased in the UK since 1997. There could be a number of reasons for this: Increased gang crime, increased saturation of the black market for guns. I won't speculate on the causes, merely state in an statistical analytical way; gun control here hasn't really done the job it was intended to do. But there could be reasons for that, simply the UK can't be compared with the US in the same way.

That's nonsense. The anti-gun faction don't think all gun owners are interested in killing innocent people. All countries have people with complex mental health issues, and the anti-gun faction want there to be less easy access to firearms.

I'd like to emphasis my comment "It's as though their argument is..." I think that's pretty clear that I'm talking about the fringes. I'm not stating it's fact, only mere opinion.

That's one case in a country with a population much larger than the US, and much less freedom (that's life, not access to weapons) and more poverty. Using one case to back up your argument is ridiculous.

You're not aware of China's growing problem? I'm failing to see what "much less freedom" has got to do with your argument, I'm not going to go out and list a whole load of cases in one post. Only mere point out a comparison. But can you not see where you've contradicted yourself. Here you claim you can't compare China to the U.S due to its population, yet previously compared the UK to the U.S....not sure what to make of this. But if you insist here's a foundation for your future reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_(2010–12) Guess what comes up again, a virtual thumbs up if you can spot the pattern.

I don't disagree with your points about attitudes towards and help for those with mental health issues though.

Which is the biggest problem the U.S faces, not gun control. I cannot remember who said it, but they said it really well "America has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem". I don't deny there's an issue with their shootings, however, you'll only take away a tool in which the crime is committed. You're not preventing the thoughts and crime being committed.

 

[martyn20]

Bottom line is there have been 74 school shootings since Sandy Hook and no national gun control measures at all. Wake up America and for once look out and see ways to make this crazy situation better.

 

[looney]

Guns kill people and dessert spoons cause obesity, where is the pudding spoon lobby when its needed. Sugar kills more people in the USA than bullets do.

 

[GreersElbow]

Bottom line is there have been 74 school shootings since Sandy Hook and no national gun control measures at all. Wake up America and for once look out and see ways to make this crazy situation better.

Bottom line is, don't bother reading anyone's else inputs.

You've completely failed to see anyone else's point. One as such: federalist system prevents a 'national gun control'.