Would you vote for bombing ISIS in Syria?

[Titanic]

"I wish I had the moral certitude of the finger-jabbing representatives of our new and kinder politics" - Alan Johnson

[tweet]672323042161332224[/tweet]

Red Ken on message with the 'new and kinder politics'...

http://news.sky.com/story/1598994/livingstone-push-out-labour-airstrikes-mps?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

"Labour veteran Ken Livingstone has suggested that Labour MPs who voted in favour of airstrikes should be pushed out of their seats.Mr Livingstone, who was controversially put in charge of the party's defence review, said if his MP had voted for airstrikes he would back a de-selection challenge.

Speaking on LBC, after 66 Labour MPs defied the leader Jeremy Corbyn to support military action in Syria, he said: "If I had an MP who had voted to bomb Syria then I would be prepared to support someone challenge him."

 

[Billy the Fish]

I really wish there was a proper explanation for what is ACTUALLY going to happen as a result of this vote. The messages coming from both sides have been riddled with political point scoring and irrelevant posturing.
I don't see how anyone can have such entrenched views either way because the media coverage has been so poor.

I watched a lot of the tv coverage last night and heard comments ranging from "bombing the country into oblivion" down to "it's just an extension of something we're already doing in Iraq" and "Our 8 planes won't make that much difference physically, it's just a political gesture"

There was a section on news night with some of the Kurds trying to defend themselves from ISIS saying how much they welcome the air support from America and would love the Brits to join in. Judging from the comments of this thread I think people have visions of carpet bombing Baghdad in 1990 whereas I don't think it's going to be like that. But I'm not sure
And the whole mess of who's supporting who is a genuine worry. Another thing which doesn't seem to get much mention is the sectarian side of things, which is massively important to know why the islamic countries are picking sides.

To summarise: I voted no, changed my mind a few times and I still don't really have a clue.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Waste of money if nothing else. Many millions are going to be spent blowing up stuff for not much discernable difference, jiust so we're being seen to be doing something. That money has to come from somewhere, more cuts in the next budget, and its going to prevent us investing in our deprived communities which is precisely where the next wave of British jihadis will come from. Breed him here and blow them up over there, I don't see the endgame

 

[GT49er]

Speaking on LBC, after 66 Labour MPs defied the leader Jeremy Corbyn to support military action in Syria, he said: "If I had an MP who had voted to bomb Syria then I would be prepared to support someone challenge him."

Strange thing to say. It was a free vote for Labour MPs.

 

[El Presidente]

How long until the next IS attack in London?

NEVER. We are bombing them so everyone is safe.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

C

Simply tax planning. No schemes, just using rules about who you leave your estate to in your will. Even the Torygraph outlined how legitimate his planning was as advice to their own readers. We've done the same with our wills without getting too personal, there is no 'scheme' in simply outlining how your estate is left and to whom.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11189430/Tony-Benns-inheritance-tax-dodge-how-it-works-and-how-you-can-use-it-too.html

I did say "avoidance" not "evasion". Still not something you would expect from the old left wing grandee.

 

[Bold Seagull]

C

I did say "avoidance" not "evasion". Still not something you would expect from the old left wing grandee.

You did say 'avoidance scheme' that suggested a tax avoidance vehicle operating some complex but legal tax avoidance. All Benn did was change the way his money was left in his will. It's just tax planning, a long way from avoidance.

 

[NooBHA]

The same Tony Benn that used tax avoidance schemes to get around inheritance tax and leave £5 million to his children?

Quote Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
I bet Tony Benn would have disowned his son for that speech tonight. Time he sat with his mates on the opposite side of the House
The same Tony Benn that used tax avoidance schemes to get around inheritance tax and leave £5 million to his children?
Most people who fall into Inheritance tax take advice on Inheritance tax planning. It is a sensible thing to do. There are no tax avoidance ''schemes'' as such which seek to exploit grey areas in tax law.

There are set rules on IHT and people just structure their wealth to ensure that they do not pay more IHT than they need to. It is not like Income Tax or Capital Gains Tax where people distribute income in a constructive manner and exploit loopholes as and when a law arises. You cannot do that with IHT for the simple reason, no one knows when they are going to die . So if someone does something which the Government doesn't like they have plenty time to thwart that action because an individual doesn't die within a tax year of taking that action. Well not for the most part anyhow.

Anyhow that aside - Ernest's point on Tony Benn being of a mind to disown his son for voting YES last night. I have no doubt in my mind that he would have disowned him for voting that way, so his comment has a ring of truth to it.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Quote Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
I bet Tony Benn would have disowned his son for that speech tonight. Time he sat with his mates on the opposite side of the House
The same Tony Benn that used tax avoidance schemes to get around inheritance tax and leave £5 million to his children?

Most people who fall into Inheritance tax take advice on Inheritance tax planning. It is a sensible thing to do. There are no tax avoidance ''schemes'' as such which seek to exploit grey areas in tax law.

There are set rules on IHT and people just structure their wealth to ensure that they do not pay more IHT than they need to. It is not like Income Tax or Capital Gains Tax where people distribute income in a constructive manner and exploit loopholes as and when a law arises. You cannot do that with IHT for the simple reason, no one knows when they are going to die . So if someone does something which the Government doesn't like they have plenty time to thwart that action because an individual doesn't die within a tax year of taking that action. Well not for the most part anyhow.

Anyhow that aside - Ernest's point on Tony Benn being of a mind to disown his son for voting YES last night. I have no doubt in my mind that he would have disowned him for voting that way, so his comment has a ring of truth to it.

Bloods thicker than water , besides what father would disown his son for making an eloquent and impassioned speech about something he believed in? Certainly not Tony Benn, who said what he thought, not what he was told to say.

 

[NooBHA]

Bloods thicker than water , besides what father would disown his son for making an eloquent and impassioned speech about something he believed in? Certainly not Tony Benn, who said what he thought, not what he was told to say.

Yes and he was a very principled honorable man as well and son or no son. The advocate of slaughtering innocent people he would never agree with

 

[NooBHA]

Again here is the list of the 66 Labour MPs who voted to bomb Syria.
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Can we have a similar list of NSC posters who voted YES and the list who voted NO. It would be interesting to see who on this site we have the same views on, on this subject

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Yes and he was a very principled honorable man as well and son or no son. The advocate of slaughtering innocent people he would never agree with

You didn't listen to the speech, did you?

 

[NooBHA]

You didn't listen to the speech, did you?

Nope but no words can justify the death of anyone. Not in my mind anyhow

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Nope but no words can justify the death of anyone. Not in my mind anyhow

Are you 12?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Nope but no words can justify the death of anyone. Not in my mind anyhow

We are not bombing people, but targets such as the ISIS oilfields.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-air-strikes-in-iraq

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Again here is the list of the 66 Labour MPs who voted to bomb Syria.
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Can we have a similar list of NSC posters who voted YES and the list who voted NO. It would be interesting to see who on this site we have the same views on, on this subject

Just click on the numbers in the poll section to find out who voted what. Are those with the 'wrong' opinion going to be deselected from the site

 

[symyjym]

Just click on the numbers in the poll section to find out who voted what. Are those with the 'wrong' opinion going to be deselected from the site

Would you have voted to bomb Assad two years ago?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Would you have voted to bomb Assad two years ago?

I can't give an easy yes no response as I do not remember the exact circumstances other than chemical weapons being used on civilians. Would you?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Waste of money if nothing else. Many millions are going to be spent blowing up stuff for not much discernable difference, jiust so we're being seen to be doing something. That money has to come from somewhere, more cuts in the next budget, and its going to prevent us investing in our deprived communities which is precisely where the next wave of British jihadis will come from. Breed him here and blow them up over there, I don't see the endgame

I agree there is no endgame, or exit strategy, and we should have avoided this, but this Government isn't one for spending money - so will have subtly cut back on the airstrikes in Iraq to save costs on fuel and bombs, and will also be cutting back on training flights, and using the Syrian bomb runs for that.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Again here is the list of the 66 Labour MPs who voted to bomb Syria.
Embedded image permalink





Can we have a similar list of NSC posters who voted YES and the list who voted NO. It would be interesting to see who on this site we have the same views on, on this subject

It's an open poll. Just click on either of the vote totals on the right, and you'll get your breakdown.