[Football] Would you replace Southgate mid tournament?

[Beanstalk]

The absolute headloss after a 1-1 draw... Still almost certain to top the group.

Just a reminder that in the last Euros we were a whisker away from winning the whole thing and scored 2 goals in the group stage (2 wins and a 0-0 draw).

 

[MJsGhost]

That bookie that’s offering 100/1 on England lifting the trophy what a clean up.

I've not seen that - which bookie?

I would imagine there's a very low maximum bet allowed and it's just a huge publicity stunt.

Despite form so far, 100/1 is ridiculous for a team almost certain to qualify, whose form could turn around (the players are good enough, so if they stop listening to Southgate, they could do it on their own).

I would lump on at 100/1 and then cover the losses (and more) by laying on the betting exchanges. Easy money!

 

[hart's shirt]

Didn’t Greece win the euros by playing some really boring football only once scoring more than 1 goal a game…..But did they care in Greece did they #%&£

An outlier event at a 16 team tournament with 6 games to navigate. Greece lost their final group game 2-1 and still qualified.

England have to survive 7 games, including 4 knockout. This despite the fact that prior to the Euros, they'd won 1 out of 5.

And where are Greece at the moment? Having lost to Georgia on a playoff penalty shootout, they're at home.

But having seen England so far, they're probably fancying their chances in October and November's games.

That's in the Nations League B into which England were relegated under Southgate.

 

[Guinness Boy]

No. There's still time to improve and he hasn't actually lost a game yet. Change would be hugely disruptive.

Gone after the tournament for sure, though.

 

[MJsGhost]

Southgate deserves some of the blame but I’m surprised that hardly anyone is calling out the players.

Nearly all had shocking games full of mistakes. Multiple basic passing errors, getting caught in possession and lack of fight/energy can’t all be down to the manager.

They’re supposed to be some of the best players on the planet.

What's more likely:

1. All of the players have an off-day of their own making at the same time, despite being well coached and managed
2. The manager (whose job is to stitch a bunch of talented players who don't play together week in, week out, into an effective unit with an understood purpose and coherent, effective tactics) is shit

Hmmmmmmmmmm...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I would, because I don't imagine it'd be any worse unless they replaced him with Lampard. But this being the FA that's probably exactly what they'd do.

Not directed at you personally, and this is a football manager job only, after all, but....

This exemplifies why we should not make decisions by referenda. The average lifespan of a government would be a month at best.

Back to the question, no, of course not. If we lose in the quarters (or sooner) Southgate is likely to walk anyway. But I would probably want him replaced and he probably will be.

And of course after we win the final group game comfortably, and dispatch our opponents in the game after, all of this Anger and Outrage will have dissipated.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No. There's still time to improve and he hasn't actually lost a game yet. Change would be hugely disruptive.

Gone after the tournament for sure, though.

Nice to se we are aligned. And, as usual, you are succincter

 

[B-right-on]

No I wouldn't replace him mid tournament, only because he's drilled them into total incompetence that any new manager's going to have to have time to turn it around

I mean listen to this post match clip of Kane where he's categorically states that they don't know how to handle teams that defend.

I mean W-T-Fing Hell

 

[B-right-on]

What's more likely:

1. All of the players have an off-day of their own making at the same time, despite being well coached and managed
2. The manager (whose job is to stitch a bunch of talented players who don't play together week in, week out, into an effective unit with an understood purpose and coherent, effective tactics) is shit

Hmmmmmmmmmm...

Just to clarify it's: EVERY GAME

 

[tstanbur]

What's more likely:

1. All of the players have an off-day of their own making at the same time, despite being well coached and managed
2. The manager (whose job is to stitch a bunch of talented players who don't play together week in, week out, into an effective unit with an understood purpose and coherent, effective tactics) is shit

Hmmmmmmmmmm...

So when Rice inexplicably boots the ball out of play for a corner (just as one example) that’s the manager’s fault?

If you read my original post properly you’ll see I think both manager and players are to blame. It’s not one or the other.

 

[Triggaaar]

Southgate deserves some of the blame but I’m surprised that hardly anyone is calling out the players.

Nearly all had shocking games full of mistakes. Multiple basic passing errors, getting caught in possession and lack of fight/energy can’t all be down to the manager.

It is possible that Southgate gave them all excellent instructions, told them all what position to be in and when, and where to pass when under pressure, and got them all to practice it. And then when it came to it, they all failed.

Or, it's possible that he didn't coach them well enough.

So is it more likely that 11 top professionals all ****ed up despite the good coaching, or is it more likely that manager with no pedigree at all didn't coach them well enough? We all know the answer.

He is simply not good enough as a manager. What did he achieve before getting the England job? Getting Middlesbrough relegated or something? I could have done that.

 

[trueblue]

Didn’t Greece win the euros by playing some really boring football only once scoring more than 1 goal a game…..But did they care in Greece did they #%&£

Greece stunk the place out and got the job done. Portugal drew all their group games and scraped through all the other matches in 2016. The only team they beat inside 90 minutes was Wales in the semi-final.

It's depressing that England are so poor considering the talent available, but can't see a mid-tournament managerial change would be a magic wand.

 

[Triggaaar]

The absolute headloss after a 1-1 draw... Still almost certain to top the group.

We'd feel more confident if we played well and got unlucky and lost the game. When the group stage is done then the result has to matter more than the performance, but we're not at that stage yet and we're wondering what plan Southgate has been able to come up with in the last 8 years.

 

[fruitnveg]

I wouldn't have had him in the job to lead us into the tournament in the first place. He should have gone after the Italy final on home turf that he screwed up with his very public display of ineptitude. For reasons beyond my understanding, he has led us into the next two, learning absolutely nothing in the process.

While i would like to see him sod off today, I don't think it practical to bin him mid tournament. Who would replace him? The ever useless FA wouldn't appoint someone good anyway and any caretaker will come from Southgate's staff, changing essentially nothing.

 

[Triggaaar]

The rumours are Southgate is very popular with the players so I don’t think it would benefit the team midway through a tournament. This will be his last tournament anyway he has said as much.

If we were playing great football, I'd be calling for him to stay on after the tournament. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

And whether we like it or not will leave as the second most successful ( but country mile) England manager of all time.

So you're saying it's impossible for us to win this tournament then. I guess you're seeing what the rest of us see after-all.

 

[MJsGhost]

So when Rice inexplicably boots the ball out of play for a corner (just as one example) that’s the manager’s fault?

If you read my original post properly you’ll see I think both manager and players are to blame. It’s not one or the other.

I'm not saying that every single individual mistake made by a player in a match is a manager's fault. Even well-coached players under talented coaches make mistakes - it's part of the game and they shouldn't get stick for it.

When there's a pattern of usually reliable players making basic errors, that suggests more than in-the-moment mistakes caused by the individual.

If Rice had confidence in making a pass (knowing where his teammates are and the likely pattern of play to follow), he'd be making the pass instead of hoofing. That's down to coaching and a clear message on how they are supposed to play and each player's role within it. The clarity allows a clear mind and better decision making because they aren't just reacting to what's in front of them.

This England team does not have a coherent plan and the root cause of that IMO is a confused midfield that lacks balance. Southgate is lost without Henderson in there and he doesn't know what to do about it. That means the players don't know either, so they are confused enough (only has to be 2% at that level) for it to put them off their game and make more mistakes.

So to answer your point, the one main cause of all this is the manager. He may not be controlling the players with a joystick and directly causing the individual mistakes, but if he was more effective at his job, the players would make fewer mistakes because they would know what they are supposed to be doing. I don't see the point in calling the players out at all.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

No, of course not. Last night was dire, but he's got enough credit in the bank to be allowed a couple of bad performances.

 

[Justice]

I've not seen that - which bookie?

I would imagine there's a very low maximum bet allowed and it's just a huge publicity stunt.

Despite form so far, 100/1 is ridiculous for a team almost certain to qualify, whose form could turn around (the players are good enough, so if they stop listening to Southgate, they could do it on their own).

I would lump on at 100/1 and then cover the losses (and more) by laying on the betting exchanges. Easy money!

£1 max bet although if 2m mugs bet a £1

 

[Hamilton]

I'd love to, but I wouldn't.

I might suggest to him that he just do the interviews and let Paul Nevin step up to lead the coaching for the rest of the tournament.

Steve Holland can be sent to clean boots.

 

[MJsGhost]

£1 max bet although if 2m mugs bet a £1

Just a marketing stunt then. Lots of free publicity and probably a few hundred people open an account as a result.