Would You Be In Favour Of Mandatory Mask Wearing Again?

[Thunder Bolt]

Not invincible. I don't think many people believe that vaccination confers immortality, and I hope there aren't many who even hope that it wuld.

What the vaccine does is improve your odds. If, for example, you are an 88 year old woman, your chances of making it to this time next year are about 80% in normal times. Based on current stats, those odds have reduced to 79%.

She knows that if she continues to hide at home and shun her friends, her social life, and her family, she can improve her chances of living another year from 79% to 80%. If she chooses to ignore the risk and goes out living her life, it isn't because she believes herself to be immortal. It's because she thinks the increased risk of death is a price worth paying for the increased enjoyment of life.

It's similar odds at all age groups. If your chances of death in normal times are 1%, then it rises to 1.05% or so. It's a matter of whether the increased risk is worth the extra enjoyment of life. Sometimes we do things (like driving, for example) that we know carries a risk, but which we choose to ignore because it's a low enough risk.

There are ways of driving which mean low risk and reckless driving.

 

[Swansman]

Indeed. Although I'm not sure I've seen, heard or read of anyone trying to make that flawed point.

Whereas, I have seen, heard and read people making the flawed point I posted.

Two flawed points don't make a right.

What is right is that there are numerous sound scientific studies pointing to face coverings helping to reduce viral spread, and that's good enough for me.

Someone made it earlier in this thread.

Anyway, I agree that both ways are too simplistic and flawed.

Here scientists made the call that if you wear or put on the mask in a correct way, it might help, while doing it incorrectly poses a risk.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I've never mentioned the staff abstinence before, but it puzzled me.

Regarding customers, it should've been a criminal law requirement here once the WHO finally came down on the side of masks (May or June 2020?) A sizeable minority here and overseas cannot be trusted. In France the police are involved and they're tough. At the height of Wave 2 we saw a bunch of thuggish types (not white bodybuilders/MMA incidentally) abusing a Romanian worker at Aldi Portslade because she politely asked them to put their masks on. Very close to her face with high decibels, she was close to a pasting. As well as old Covid Idiots with a death wish, mask-less teens and twenties arroganty waltzing round stores this year at the height of Covid. When it had become law.

Personally, I think both staff and customers should've worn then. Precedent, or an order, or two-wrongs ... won't help get the metrics down.

And basically anyone at football who admits to not wearing a mask Because Nobody Else Was Wearing One Either just became part of the problem right then

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Did I also mention the numerous dirty F'ckers, going to the toilet and not washing their hands? Soap dodging Vermin.

One reason why I have a bottle of hand gel in my bag at all times.

 

[kemptown kid]

Yes. Been to France and Greece in recent months and felt much safer in both countries than back home.

Unless the gov't is following a herd immunity policy without stating it openly, I cannot understand why minor inconveniences - mask wearing, social distancing - which may have a positive effect on numbers becoming ill and dying - have been abandoned.

 

[Southern Scouse]

Who wouldn’t?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Not invincible. I don't think many people believe that vaccination confers immortality, and I hope there aren't many who even hope that it wuld.

What the vaccine does is improve your odds. If, for example, you are an 88 year old woman, your chances of making it to this time next year are about 80% in normal times. Based on current stats, those odds have reduced to 79%.

She knows that if she continues to hide at home and shun her friends, her social life, and her family, she can improve her chances of living another year from 79% to 80%. If she chooses to ignore the risk and goes out living her life, it isn't because she believes herself to be immortal. It's because she thinks the increased risk of death is a price worth paying for the increased enjoyment of life.

It's similar odds at all age groups. If your chances of death in normal times are 1%, then it rises to 1.05% or so. It's a matter of whether the increased risk is worth the extra enjoyment of life. Sometimes we do things (like driving, for example) that we know carries a risk, but which we choose to ignore because it's a low enough risk.

Not as simple as that though, is it. It would be foolish of her to make a health decision based on a nationwide average probability that doesn’t take any other factors into account ie pre existing health conditions, prevalence of the virus locally, capacity at local hospital. If this is a real person you are talking about then I hope she is getting better advice than simply your 79 or 80 % scenario. My 80 year old Mum certainly is.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Why don't supermarket staff wear masks (in Sainsbury's West Hove it's been virtually no-one since March 2020)? Age doesn't seem to come into it, at the height of the pandemic, young and older staff didn't give a monkeys.

Do Tesco's as a company have no interest in their stores?

It's doable - in NHS and private hospitals, bus drivers, airports, overseas shops I've been in (Italy and Spain), literally every worker wears a mask properly over the nose and mouth.

Why should private companies be enforcing something the government has told them they don't have to do?

The moment we said it's a personal choice, then that was that. And be careful not to mask or vax shame the nimbys while you're at it!

 

[Boroseagull]

Here in Spain it's mandatory to wear a mask whilst using public transport (inc taxis), in public buildings and every shop, bar, venta, we use make wearing them a condition of entry.

But the interesting thing street wise is most youngsters, teenagers etc. wear them out of respect to other people. Perhaps it's the respect shown by younger members of extended Spanish family life coming through. In the streets you can easily tell the locals/residents from the non mask wearing (it's not now compulsory) holiday makers.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Did I also mention the numerous dirty F'ckers, going to the toilet and not washing their hands? Soap dodging Vermin.

Yep, I’m never returning to the shaking hands greeting and not just because of Covid.

 

[Hamilton]

Hmmm..i haven’t worn one since so called freedom day ..I don’t generally stay in an area for a long length of time where there are a lot of people apart from the Amex I haven’t been in an area for a long period of time where there is a lot of people….cinema on Sunday only about fifty..quite spread out and large venue etc…at the Amex I tend to go up one end of the concourse at HT where it’s not busy ETC….I try to keep a bit of natural distance between me and a person I don’t know……judging by posts I’ve read so far it’s about the same views we’ve all had for the last eighteen months

Out of interest, would you be willing to pop a mask on if you felt your behaviour would encourage others - who might be mixing in busier areas - to do so? I understand that you are keeping your distance, but on a busy Amex concourse if you are seen not wearing a mask (or at least not wearing a mask while you make your way about), then it might encourage others not to wear a mask at all.

I'm not painting you as a bad person, just asking if that might change your mind.

 

[Hamilton]

Here in Spain it's mandatory to wear a mask whilst using public transport (inc taxis), in public buildings and every shop, bar, venta, we use make wearing them a condition of entry.

But the interesting thing street wise is most youngsters, teenagers etc. wear them out of respect to other people. Perhaps it's the respect shown by younger members of extended Spanish family life coming through. In the streets you can easily tell the locals/residents from the non mask wearing (it's not now compulsory) holiday makers.

I think this is part of the problem. We have allowed a culture to emerge in England where the rights of the individual far outweigh the rights of the community. That is not an attack on any one individual.

People will always point to communities pulling together in times of crisis e.g. flooding etc. but that is acute crisis. In general, our default is to care more for our own rights than those of others.

 

[W.C.]

I struggle with your idea of a good place. 800 people are dying every week which is the equivalent of a major train crash.

Crazy isn't it?

 

[Weststander]

Who wouldn’t?

Icke-mann
kate Shemirani
Piers Corbyn

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Yes. Been to France and Greece in recent months and felt much safer in both countries than back home.

Unless the gov't is following a herd immunity policy without stating it openly, I cannot understand why minor inconveniences - mask wearing, social distancing - which may have a positive effect on numbers becoming ill and dying - have been abandoned.

If these dangerous levels of infection are allowed to rip unchecked through Plague Island then we'll be on the Red List of any country with any sense by Xmas

 

[Weststander]

Why should private companies be enforcing something the government has told them they don't have to do?

The moment we said it's a personal choice, then that was that. And be careful not to mask or vax shame the nimbys while you're at it!

It was mandatory in shops from 24 July 2020.

Some smaller shops enforced it leading to violent attacks.

Waitrose Hove employed a couple of outside 'the real deal' security blokes, it did the trick, 100% mask wearing from what I saw.

Others including the big chains couldn't be arsed. When challenged by the media they simply said they weren't prepared to put the safety of staff at risk.


Genuine question, how do we crack this one?


UK wide btw, Wales, Scotland and NI set their own Covid rules. If aggressive Brits won't wear a mask and are prepared for a scuffle or verbal tirade, what's the solution?

 

[Badger]

We're still mandated to wear masks whenever we enter any public indoor space here in Ontario. I don't particularly like wearing a mask but I'm so used to it now I don't really give it much thought. You don't see too many people wearing them outdoors on the street, although big sporting venues do try and mandate wearing them in stadiums.

Our vaccine numbers have been really high and case numbers started going up in September but have come right back down again (c. 400 cases a day in Ontario out of 15 million people). It's interesting that there hasn't really been much call for ditching mask wearing, people have just accepted it is a very minor inconvenience to help keep numbers down. The priority has been trying to get things open again and if mask wearing helps that then so be it.

We also require vaccine passports to get into restaurants, bars (indoors), sporting events, concerts, cinemas etc. which is great and has also helped keep the vaccine numbers going up. That's another debate though.

I'm going to be in the UK in a couple of weeks and I'm interested to see what the mask wearing is like.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Nope. Having been double-vaccinated and then caught covid itself, if I was to catch it again then there is really nothing we can do other than let it circulate.

Masks are pointless unless accompanied by a lockdown. We can all wear them in a shop, and then we all go to the pub or restaurant and take them off. Ultimately, with 40% of vaccinated people able to catch and spread the virus, it will not be eradicated, and therefore each of us will come into contact with the virus it unless we live a hermit lifestyle. Get vaccinated and then there is little more that we can do.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It was mandatory in shops from 24 July 2020.

Some smaller shops enforced it leading to violent attacks.

Waitrose Hove employed a couple of outside 'the real deal' security blokes, it did the trick, 100% mask wearing from what I saw.

Others including the big chains simply couldn't be arsed. When challenged by the media they simply said they weren't prepared to put the safety of staff at risk.


Genuine question, how do we crack this one?


UK wide btw, Wales, Scotland and NI set their own Covid rules. If aggressive Brits won't wear a mask and are prepared for a scuffle or verbal tirade, what's the solution?

And of course private companies do lots of things the Government doesn’t tell them to do. As do we as individuals. Anybody sitting around waiting for the authorities to wipe their arse is simply hiding from their personal and corporate responsibility.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Here in Spain it's mandatory to wear a mask whilst using public transport (inc taxis), in public buildings and every shop, bar, venta, we use make wearing them a condition of entry.

But the interesting thing street wise is most youngsters, teenagers etc. wear them out of respect to other people. Perhaps it's the respect shown by younger members of extended Spanish family life coming through. In the streets you can easily tell the locals/residents from the non mask wearing (it's not now compulsory) holiday makers.

I think it's less about respect and more about conformity. We don't generally as a species like to be the ones that stick out, so human nature is to conform. If in Spain it's mandatory in many situations, then it's normal for more people to have to be wearing masks, therefore conformity is to wear one.

Here we left it as personal choice, as soon as that personal choice balanced non wearing to wearing, conformity fell either way. Through the summer the government talked up it's great job on the vaccine roll out, numbers were down, people relaxed, masks seemed less necessary, non wearing become more normal than wearing.

There might be some cultural bias in what you say about respect and family life, but I doubt it, had there rules echoed ours, I suspect mask wearing would have gone the same way.