would Scotland becoming independent be good? for them, rest of UK?

[desprateseagull]

serious question.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The idea behind Scottish "independence" isn't to create a separate nineteenth-century-style "Nation State", but rather it's about establishing a new way of defining the inter-relationships between people. I'm full of admiration for those Scots who answer the question "Who will be a citizen of an independent Scotland?" by saying "It doesn't matter". I might even claim Scottish citizenship myself, on the basis of generations of ancestors who ploughed the land in Roxburghshire and Berwickshire.

Dismantling the nineteenth century is a good project. It's why the vision of a new Europe is exciting. A new UK is equally exciting - provided folk get the point of it. The economy of the world has long since ceased to be about rivalries between "Nations". Those opponents of a new UK who think the argument is all about dividing the wealth up between Scotland and the rest of the UK (with "winners" and "losers") are missing the point.

 

[Albumen]

If the transparent double bluff by Cameron works and they gain independence, the winners will be Scotland, and the losers will be the rest of the UK being stuck with Tories for ever. I'd probably move to Scotland if it happens.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Most people who have spent a lifetime following a lower league football club will have a strong sense of place.

My places are Sussex and Lincolnshire and whilst 'pride' might not be exactly the right word I am very happy to be an Englishman. Those who are also pleased to be English may reflect on the fact that for 400 years their country hasn't had much in the way of its own armed forces, national government or foreign policy. There are no English embassies around the world and our passport makes no reference to the country we call our own.

Of all the people in the world most likely to support the thesis Lord B presents above it should be Englishmen (and Scots and Welshmen). Our experience has shown that a sense of national identify doesn't demand the apparatus of a 19th century nation state. The English should be at the forefront of the argument for a new Europe - we've PROVED that a sense of national belonging and purpose need not be damaged by loose political federation (and any federation proposed for Europe is far weaker than the political ties that have joined the UK together for centuries).

It is a bit ironic that it is essentially English political parties that have set themselves up to be Europe's great sceptics.

 

[soistes]

If the transparent double bluff by Cameron works and they gain independence, the winners will be Scotland, and the losers will be the rest of the UK being stuck with Tories for ever. I'd probably move to Scotland if it happens.

This -- bad for us. There would be a permanent majority for the Tories in Westminster, without the Scots

 

[Da Man Clay]

I'm not sure how it would make any financial sense. They'd have to take a percentage of our national debt with them and more than likely would be paying a higer rate for borrowing from other nations (they certainly wouldn't have the AAA credit rating as a new nation).

 

[happypig]

If they want to retain Sterling and remain in the EU, neither of which are a given despite Salmon's assertions, they they aren't really independent at all; they will be controlled by Brussels and the Bank of England. If England's economy and Scotland's economy diverge too much, then there could be the situation whereby interest rates are set by the BoE to help the English economy but to the detriment of the Scots'.
Personally I love Scotland (apart from a nob-head called Bob) and I think it would be a disaster for the UK if they became independent.

 

[SI 4 BHA]

One of my most successful clients is a Scot who lived in Brighton for many years and moved "home" several years ago. We were chatting yesterday about his business plans for the next couple of years, and he was convinced that independence would be bad for Scotland, or at least bad for successful entrepreneurs such as himself. He did think that his fellow Scots wouldn't be stupid enough (his words) to vote for it but if they did, he was quite serious about moving back to England.

 

[mwrpoole]

I sense a game of poker is being played here by the 'No' team. They will be saying you can't have the £ at some stage but seem to be leaving it as late as possible before they tell the Scots. Once the people of Scotland find out they can't have the £, I suspect many will vote to stay in the UK rather than have the Euro.

 

[Weststander]

Economically, it would be a disaster for Scotland. Going by the financial press and independent economic analysts, Scotland's share of the UK's national debt would almost certainly be handed over on a per capita ratio basis. With their low GDP this would give them horrendous state debt. In addition, due to that ratio of debt, smaller size and a lack of track record, the markets would require a higher rate of interest to be paid by them on their national debt. Added to that, they would lose the vast net cash inflows from spending over taxation on Scottish affairs, from Westminster. They would have to fund their army of unemployed, disabled, pensioners, generous University subsidies, completely on their own.

Salmond a few years back painted the picture of an independent Scotland thriving like Iceland, Ireland and Portugal. For obvious reasons, he's not mentioned that one for approximately 6 years.

Conversely, England, Wales and NI should gain economically.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Economically, it would be a disaster for Scotland. Going by the financial press and independent economic analysts, Scotland's share of the UK's national debt would almost certainly be handed over on a per capita ratio basis. With their low GDP this would give them horrendous state debt. In addition, due to that ratio of debt, smaller size and a lack of track record, the markets would require a higher rate of interest to be paid by them on their national debt. Added to that, they would lose the vast net cash inflows from spending over taxation on Scottish affairs, from Westminster. They would have to fund their army of unemployed, disabled, pensioners, generous University subsidies, completely on their own.

All of the above, but (in true David Brent style) on the plus side, Alex Salmond gets promoted. Can't imagine why he's pushing for it

 

[dangull]

If the transparent double bluff by Cameron works and they gain independence, the winners will be Scotland, and the losers will be the rest of the UK being stuck with Tories for ever. I'd probably move to Scotland if it happens.

Long trip to the Amex then

 

[fat old seagull]

It's little more than Alex Salmond wishing to declare himself "King of Anywhere". I spent a lump of my life life in the military and shared some great times with Scots lads, what now, do they have their own friggin army? Bloody sad when the rest of the World see the sense of unity the scots are in danger of becoming singular.

 

[Seasidesage]

I just wonder when someone is going to ask the English what we want? It appears to be a given that we want the union and if anyone might actually gain from independence it's us. Although I take the point about the Tories it at least would be a democratic decision, unlike both the devolution and independence questions on which we have or have had no say in either our own future or that of the union...

 

[Albumen]

Long trip to the Amex then

At least it's downhill!

 

[Dandyman]

This -- bad for us. There would be a permanent majority for the Tories in Westminster, without the Scots

No, it would not. Based on the 2010 General Election, Labour would lose 41 seats, the Liberals 11 seats, the SNP 6 seats and the Tories 1 seat. The net difference to Labour excluding the SNP would be 39 seats or with the SNP 33 seats. Given that Labour had a majority of 179 in 1997, 167 in 2001 and 66 in 2005 it would still have won everyone of those Elections.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I'm not sure how it would make any financial sense. They'd have to take a percentage of our national debt with them and more than likely would be paying a higer rate for borrowing from other nations (they certainly wouldn't have the AAA credit rating as a new nation).

This probably couldn't work. You can't just change the terms of a debt by transferring the owner of the debt without the permission of the lender. The world's banks would probably just laugh at us if we tried this.

 

[Footsoldier]

Hope they vote yes and sod off then we'll not have to hear about bloody Scottish football again.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

One stat that caught my eye was that the vast majority of the tens of thousands of civil servants based in Scotland are concerned with UK rather than purely Scottish matters. Given that Scotland is only a small element of the UK and given that no government in the world has ever had huge numbers of its staff working in a foreign country, the UK would presumably transfer most of these jobs out of Scotland as soon as possible.

 

[Weststander]

Hopefully we wouldn't get the tedious updates and final scores on BBC TV and Radio, that Celtic have just beaten teams like St.Johnstone or Kilmarnock (who really are on a tiny fraction of their budget), with a biased Roddy Rosyth excited that Samaras has just scored with a header. Zzzzzzzzzz

Surely with independence, politically correct BBC in being yawningly fair to all corners of the UK, would drop coverage of Scottish club football?