[Politics] Worst PM since Thatcher

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There is no way that would have solved the problem. Can you imagine the likes of Farage etc if Leave had won by 52:48 just leaving it there and saying "OK, well we all agreed it had to be 60:40 so the question is put to bed now"?

It would have dragged on for even longer, until we'd have ended up having another referendum, which Leave probably would have won again, and then we'd still be in the process of arguing what Brexit was actually going to look like now.


Unpopular opinion, I'm sure, but have you considered that actually it is a really f***ing hard job? And that the overwhelming majority of the population would be utterly useless at it?

If the case had been made for 60:40 as it was when we joined, then f*** Farage. He doesn't run the country.

Anyway, yeah, it would have been better that Cameron had had some balls and said that parliament runs the country and governments are elected to do so. We don't run the nation with referendums. But he was a chancer and though he would win. The twat.

 

[pocketseagull]

Special mention to Blair - a self centred bloke who gambled with the countries credit card

Are you blaming Labour for the global financial crash or something else?

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Is there a secondary market for 2nd after Truss?

 

[Commander]

If the case had been made for 60:40 as it was when we joined, then f*** Farage. He doesn't run the country.

Anyway, yeah, it would have been better that Cameron had had some balls and said that parliament runs the country and governments are elected to do so. We don't run the nation with referendums. But he was a chancer and though he would win. The twat.

He doesn't, but the question wouldn't have got away, it would have got much bigger.

Fully agree on the second part. He gambled with the Scottish independence referendum and won, and thought if he could do the same with Europe then it would put the question to bed, sort out the split in the Tory party and get on with trying to be a long-term PM. But he underestimated how easy it is to manipulate people by telling them that their crap lives is somebody else's fault, and if you take that bogeyman away, then everything will be great again.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Are you blaming Labour for the global financial crash or something else?

Sounds like he's blaming Blair for being the mastermind behind Brown, them man who caused the global financial crash.

Later today I am hoping how he will explain how Farage, a massively pro EU politician, who was never happier than sitting as an MEP, masterminded the Brexit fiasco simply to bring Brexit into disrepute, paving the way for a third in-out referendum that will this time be more than legally binding - actually spiritually binding such that any further attempts to leave would send your soul directly to hell. Fact.

 

[worthingseagull123]

Blair.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

He doesn't, but the question wouldn't have got away, it would have got much bigger.

Fully agree on the second part. He gambled with the Scottish independence referendum and won, and thought if he could do the same with Europe then it would put the question to bed, sort out the split in the Tory party and get on with trying to be a long-term PM. But he underestimated how easy it is to manipulate people by telling them that their crap lives is somebody else's fault, and if you take that bogeyman away, then everything will be great again.

I agree that Farage would never have shut up. Whether he is sufficiently charismatic to have led a ragged rabble up the Mall to enact insurrection (etc.) is a moot point, though. Noisy yes. Impactful. Hmmmm.

It occurs to me....it is odd that now we have 'left' the EU, there is no Farage equivalent, rabble-rousing about rejoining the EU. We remainers may grumble a bit (OK a lot) on NSC, or the letters pages of The Guardian, but we have no focal leader appearing on Question time, lying about how the bonus of rejoining the EU would make the NHS so much better that we would actually grow younger, rather than older, as we got older (a scientific fact).

It seems tome that the right wing carpet-bagging shysters of this world will always find a cause (to use to promote themselves). The anti EU mob in the tories had reduced to the likes of Bill Cash and Moggy when Cameron got in; nobody credible, nobody sane. Farage simply cannot win a byelection. Cameron had no need to risk everything just to shut up the wankas.

And had remain won by 51 to 40 with a 50:50 bar, or 55 to 45 with a 60:40 bar, Farage would have carried on the same. So a safeguarding threshold would have been the right thing. Farage will never shut up and will always be there, grifting. f*** him.

Good chat though

 

[peterward]

Pure tribalism will blind many to the point they simply refuse to see anything good or positive in a leader, as they can't stand them personally or their party.

Of course they all had some pluses/wins and also minuses/failures, except Truss who just failed.

Everyone of the others got some things right and some wrong.

The +/- of each getting magnified many times either way by tribalism or political persuasions.

 

[Commander]

Blair.

Astonishes me that anybody can actually say that. And I'm a long way from being a Labour stalwart!

Why?

 

[Me Atome]

So is this the new Brexit thread?

 

[Commander]

I agree that Farage would never have shut up. Whether he is sufficiently charismatic to have led a ragged rabble up the Mall to enact insurrection (etc.) is a moot point, though. Noisy yes. Impactful. Hmmmm.

It occurs to me....it is odd that now we have 'left' the EU, there is no Farage equivalent, rabble-rousing about rejoining the EU. We remainers may grumble a bit (OK a lot) on NSC, or the letters pages of The Guardian, but we have no focal leader appearing on Question time, lying about how the bonus of rejoining the EU would make the NHS so much better that we would actually grow younger, rather than older, as we got older (a scientific fact).

It seems tome that the right wing carpet-bagging shysters of this world will always find a cause (to use to promote themselves). The anti EU mob in the tories had reduced to the likes of Bill Cash and Moggy when Cameron got in; nobody credible, nobody sane. Farage simply cannot win a byelection. Cameron had no need to risk everything just to shut up the wankas.

And had remain won by 51 to 40 with a 50:50 bar, or 55 to 45 with a 60:40 bar, Farage would have carried on the same. So a safeguarding threshold would have been the right thing. Farage will never shut up and will always be there, grifting. f*** him.

Good chat though

Agreed on the lack of rabble rousing rejoining MPs. I don't get why the Lib Dems don't place themselves here. I'm sure the vast majority of MPs think Brexit has been a total car crash, but none of them are brave enough to say it. I can't believe that if the Lib Dems made themselves the rejoin party, that they wouldn't get a much larger share of the vote in the next GE that they would otherwise.

 

[Rookie]

Are you blaming Labour for the global financial crash or something else?

Don’t believe that is what I said was it?

 

[Normal Rob]

Truss was an idiot. Johnson was a manipulative, lying, evil scumbag.

 

[Lever]

Just to add that while I have compassion for the deceived and nothing but contempt for the deceivers, for those posters on here who persisted in celebrating false claims of Tory Brexit success it has been hard to feel anything but distain...

 

[Lever]

So is this the new Brexit thread?

Well, I think the tories aligned themselves so completely with Brexit after the cull of tory remainers that the two are inextricably linked....

 

[Lenny Rider]

Blair, if only for the war crimes.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

But he underestimated how easy it is to manipulate people by telling them that their crap lives is somebody else's fault, and if you take that bogeyman away, then everything will be great again.

Ironic given that lying about who's fault the recession was and blaming everything on Labour, and then holding up the Labour/SNP chimera was pretty much how he got elected in the first place.

 

[Scappa]

Blair, if only for the war crimes.

Do you believe the Tories of the day would have kept us out of it?

It always seems to be totally forgotten how the political parties actually lined up in that Iraq vote. The votes against were 84 Labour, 52 Lib Dem, 5 SNP, 4 Plaid Cymru, 2 Conservative and 2 others.

Labour 254 out of 410 voted for it (61%)
Conservatives 146 out of 166 voted for it (91%)

But you can prove anything with facts

Because the above suggests otherwise

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Blair, if only for the war crimes.

<sigh>

 

[Rdodge30]

Anyway, yeah, it would have been better that Cameron had had some balls and said that parliament runs the country and governments are elected to do so

If I remember correctly, the promise of a referendum was in the Conservative manifesto in 2015 before the general election … they cobbled it together to keep the right of the party in line pre election- labour SNP and liberal were all remain parties but somehow the tories won the election

And as for 60-40 ?? Why stop there if we’re going to be blatantly undemocratic how about 75-25 !!