World War 1

[cunning fergus]

I understand what youre saying...he was basically a warlord....but i believe the British royals genuinly were terrified of his ideas arriving in Britain..as would have the Revolution before his arrival on the scenel, which would have removed them from the good life, and would have gone out of their way to demonise him, which is all im really saying..
Just another land grabbing despot...as the British are often seen in many parts of the world, not just Europe.
We get told its a bad thing to dominate, and occupy, and enslave people...when we were actually masters of it.

But venerating Napoleon is laughable, his ideas resulted in totalitarianism, European war and then the destruction of his country. Napoleon was demonised because he was a threat to Britain, which he was. Do you think Hitler should not have been demonised because we had an Empire in 1939?

During the course of history the British Royals (and ruling classes) have probably sat in fear from Philip of Spain, Napoleon and Hitler. None of them had ideas that would have improved the lives of the British poor, which we would both accept were largely shit anyway.

The ruling classes in Britain were already dealing with Jacobins, Luddites, the London Corresponding Society and other reformists. And that is not to dismiss this country's long history of movements that posed a threat to the ruling classes enjoyment of the "good life" from Wat Tyler to the levellers. Fact is we should be grateful that social change and reform here was driven by gentler forces like the Chartists and Methodists as oppose to change following violent revolution.

 

[Stoo82]

Fact is we should be grateful that social change and reform here was driven by gentler forces like the Chartists and Methodists as oppose to change following violent revolution.

That's a really good point.

It's remarkable how much a stable(ish) government can prosper a country.

 

[HovaGirl]

But venerating Napoleon is laughable, his ideas resulted in totalitarianism, European war and then the destruction of his country. Napoleon was demonised because he was a threat to Britain, which he was. Do you think Hitler should not have been demonised because we had an Empire in 1939?

During the course of history the British Royals (and ruling classes) have probably sat in fear from Philip of Spain, Napoleon and Hitler. None of them had ideas that would have improved the lives of the British poor, which we would both accept were largely shit anyway.

The ruling classes in Britain were already dealing with Jacobins, Luddites, the London Corresponding Society and other reformists. And that is not to dismiss this country's long history of movements that posed a threat to the ruling classes enjoyment of the "good life" from Wat Tyler to the levellers. Fact is we should be grateful that social change and reform here was driven by gentler forces like the Chartists and Methodists as oppose to change following violent revolution.

Well, we had a violent revolution in the 17th century and that taught us we didn't ever want another one. In the end, social change was actually brought about piecemeal by The Establishment.

 

[daveinprague]

But venerating Napoleon is laughable, his ideas resulted in totalitarianism, European war and then the destruction of his country. Napoleon was demonised because he was a threat to Britain, which he was.

Not sure on what level you think im 'venerating' Napoleon, by saying 'Yeah...Napoleon was demonised by the British aristocracy, fearful of losing the good times... managed to convince the common man as well' ...but anyway...my interest is WW1 rather than Napoleon...He isnt really a subject im interested in...I just said that in response to somebody elses post...

 

[banjo]

Didn't realise that Spanish Flu killed more people than the war itself.

 

[Mowgli37]

A rather curious fact: Harry S Truman fought in World War One and ensured that his artillery unit kept firing right up until the armistice at 11AM on the last day of the war, in doing so firing the very last shots of the war. Twenty seven years later as the president of the USA, Truman ordered the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the final acts of World War Two.

 

[vegster]

I'm currently reading Catastrophe, Europe goes to war 1914 by Max Hastings. Quite a good read, we were pretty poor soldiers at first thanks to inept leadership and distrust between us and the French and Belgian forces. Just reading about the First Battle of Ypres,it is a harrowing read.

 

[pastafarian]

37 Days To War

Now that was good interesting and educational television.

still available on bbciplayer i believe

 

[banjo]

http://www.1914.org/why_remember/

100 years remembered this year. Sorry to take a side step from the current threads about all our problems on and off the pitch.

thought this deserved a bounce.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Brothers In Arms (ITV) is worth a watch. Lacks the Hollywood spectre, thankfully.

 

[banjo]

Brothers In Arms (ITV) is worth a watch. Lacks the Hollywood spectre, thankfully.

Watching thanks.

 

[Rogero]

Visit the Brighton museum,nice war exhibition.

 

[banjo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01wsc8l

 

[LowerWesty]

Define ironic, well it could have been very poignant on this day 100 years ago.

Had the law of male primogeniture, which has just be passed, been in place in the 19th century Queen Victoria's heir would have been her eldest child Princess Victoria, not Edward VII. Thereafter, the British Crown would have passed to her son, Kaiser Wilhelm II(Bill), thus fusing the British and German empires. This would have almost certainly averted the Great War on the grounds that ‘Kaiser Bill’, however idiotic, would not have gone to war against himself.

With no First World War, the conditions which gave rise to Hitler would not have developed and as a consequence there would not have been a Second World War.

Makes you think eh? And we would all be driving around in new Mercedes Benz with a standard of living only dreamt about by the majority. Or perhaps not ......

 

[Dandyman]

Absolutely right. The British establishment, along with all other established elites (I do so hate that word) in Europe, were terrified of Napoleon and the New French Empire he created. He was no democrat. The Republic was abolished in 1799 and he came to power as First Consul, effectively a Dictator in the same year. He was crowned Emperor 1804 and lasted until 1815. The Code Napoleon, the reorganization of France from a Medieval mess into a modern state is his lasting legacy.

Napoleon had no problem with Monarchy, not only was he an Emperor himself, he was also King of Italy. His brother, was King of Spain and many other Royal Houses came under his domain. Not, president or Coucal or any kind of, however rouge, democratic idea at all.

Napoleon is remembered in the Polish National Anthem as liberating Poland from the Russian Czar.

Przejdziem Wisłę, przejdziem Wartę,
Będziem Polakami.
Dał nam przykład Bonaparte,
Jak zwyciężać mamy.

...We'll cross the Vistula and the Warta,
We shall be Polish.
Bonaparte has given us the example
Of how we should prevail...