[Football] World Cup - Day Fifteen... D-Day for England

[Springal]

The ones that they've shown on BBC/ITV from the games so far have been from limited number of venues and looked like very forced celebrations from the punters to be honest.

They are absolutely terrible and generally from Box Parks (much like the crap Brighton FA Cup semi final one) but they are definitely not ‘forced’

 

[Mellotron]

A(nother) big difference with England of old - the moment we scored the first goal, I was 1,000,000% certain we'd win.

 

[GT49er]

Jesus.

It's nothing to do with tolerance.

White people, for years, blacked up to mock or impersonate black people. That's racist. The Senegal fans in question have used a white background so that the green "SENEGAL" stands out - because it wouldn't on black skin.

FFS

So predictable - as was so accurately predicted.

 

[jcdenton08]

Well yes, you might well have! So, which hues of skin tone have the inaliable right to put make up on to change the colour of their faces? I'm sure the Senegalise fans are doing it for fun, with no racism or hatred towards anyone - why on earth should anyone be offended? No reasonable tolerant person would be.
So, it's OK for some but not for others - that's hardly good liberalism, equality and tolerance.

P.S. As a kind and gentle soul, who looks to love and respect all my brothers and sisters on this earth, I fully expect, and am immune to, storms of vitriol from those that are actually less tolerant than I.

Stop trying to be reasonable. Discussion of anyone’s skin colour/cultural norms means you’re a racist. You racist. Posted by a mixed race guy.

I need a policeman

 

[schmunk]

The first 35 minutes were nervy and cumbersome, then lighting quick we were 2 up.
we dominated the game, I think we are capable of beating France, however we need to cut out those mistakes we made in the first 35 minutes, there were some very sloppy passes that went astray, that luckily we were not punished for.

Roll on Saturday…

I’ve seen to many false dawns to get my hopes up, but….

well played

Senegal played a very strong press for most of the first half - Sarr in particular was sprinting everywhere - and that made it very difficult, but we kept it *relatively* tidy and didn't concede. After Senegal tired a bit we had much more room to play in.

 

[Mellotron]

 

[Poojah]

He’s done a remarkable job. Worth noting that the two he lost, in a semi-final and a final, were lost in extra-time and penalties respectively.

Simon Jordan, whom I normally like, is on Talksport now effectively saying that very little credit is deserved thus far as we have only beaten sides who we should expect to beat.

But that’s not how it works, is it? What about Iceland in 2016? Failing to make it out of the group in 2014? Our capitulation against Germany in 2010? Not even making the Euros in 2008, or the World Cup in 1994?

The shirt has worn heavily on previous generations of England players, some of whom were more talented than others. Southgate has found a way to relieve that mental pressure, and got the media on side. That makes a huge difference, and enables the likes of Jude Bellingham and Bukayo Saka to make such an impressive impact at such a scarily young age.

Whatever happens on Saturday night, and beyond, I predict it will be a long time before an England manager does a superior job to Southgate.

 

[Napper]

Seems the knockers are now onto the guaranteed fact that we will 100% get shown up against France.

Must feel terrible that so many have been proved wrong

On we march

 

[nwgull]

There was some know-it-all old git on the 5-Live phone in this morning who was moaning on for about 5 mins about Southgate's selection last night and Harry Kane in particular. I genuinely believe that people like him wanted England to lose just so they can say 'told you so' after moaning about Southgate's selections for the past 4 years.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Seems the knockers are now onto the guaranteed fact that we will 100% get shown up against France.

Must feel terrible that so many have been proved wrong

On we march

It's very easy to predict what some will be saying over the next few days:

"Only beaten bang average teams" (Yet it is the fans who are arrogant and entitled apparently)

"Will get found out by France"(In that France are the reigning world champions and are accepted as being better than us and the favourites for the game?)

"Will get beaten by France becuase Southgate is shit"(See above)

Then if England should beat France it'll be:

"Got lucky"
"France are missing key players"
"France have been poor since winning the world cup"
"England will get found out by Spain/Portugal"

 

[Simster]

Genuine question. Why do people think Southgate has succeeded where other (frankly more respected) managers have failed? I mean, I don't agree with a lot of his squad selections, he appears slow to find his best team once we're in the tournament, and when things do go wrong, he rarely makes the right changes to swing the game in our favour. What's more, I'd still shudder if he was ever appointed the Albion, despite being from Sussex himself.

And yet, for all that, he's outperformed every past England manager with the exception of Alf Ramsay. It isn't luck - he's done it in the last two tournaments and nobody is writing off England in this one because we do score goals under Southgate.

So what is his secret? I can only think he picks players he trusts to be good squad people despite not necessarily being good enough (I'm looking at Henderson and Maguire here) and they repay his faith for that. The media problems are also a thing of the past under Southgate - that can't be a coincidence. But why?

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Genuine question. Why do people think Southgate has succeeded where other (frankly more respected) managers have failed? I mean, I don't agree with a lot of his squad selections, he appears slow to find his best team once we're in the tournament, and when things do go wrong, he rarely makes the right changes to swing the game in our favour. What's more, I'd still shudder if he was ever appointed the Albion, despite being from Sussex himself.

And yet, for all that, he's outperformed every past England manager with the exception of Alf Ramsay. It isn't luck - he's done it in the last two tournaments and nobody is writing off England in this one because we do score goals under Southgate.

So what is his secret? I can only think he picks players he trusts to be good squad people despite not necessarily being good enough (I'm looking at Henderson and Maguire here) and they repay his faith for that. The media problems are also a thing of the past under Southgate - that can't be a coincidence. But why?

He's made joining up and playing for the national team a fun experience again. From day 1 the PR difference was remarkable. It used to be 'them and us' with the England team and the media. The players had been screwed over so many times that they had put up this wall.

Southgate smashed that down. Open sessions, social media utilisation, press open days where the media basically speed date and go round interviewing all the players. The players themselves speak openly about the fun they have joining up. Follow their youtube/facebook page and watch the Lions Den videos theyve been doing through the tournament. Completely non-standard footballer interviews. Relaxed and no defences put up.

The moment you remove the fear, the pessimism and the dark cloud over playing for England you suddenly remember we have VERY talented footballers playing in (what I believe to be) the best league.

The balance he has struck between youth and core players is key as well. I imagine many bemoaned the inclusion of people like Shaw, Henderson, Maguire, Phillips (hasn't played) but it must give you an amazing feeling as a player to have that backing and it's showing.

It also helps we have a VERY talented squad going forwards. Mad to think we could field a second lot of attacking talent including Sterling, Mount, Maddison, Grealish and Rashford.

 

[Springal]

There was something in commentary that the players do a lot more together now and a fun environment has been created - where as before players were in smaller groups, stayed in their rooms a lot playing consoles etc.

 

[Mellotron]

But that’s not how it works, is it? What about Iceland in 2016? Failing to make it out of the group in 2014? Our capitulation against Germany in 2010? Not even making the Euros in 2008, or the World Cup in 1994?

Also the endless list of other "big" nations who don't get the results they should. It simply isn't how football works, especially tournament football with one-off, knockout games.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Genuine question. Why do people think Southgate has succeeded where other (frankly more respected) managers have failed? I mean, I don't agree with a lot of his squad selections, he appears slow to find his best team once we're in the tournament, and when things do go wrong, he rarely makes the right changes to swing the game in our favour. What's more, I'd still shudder if he was ever appointed the Albion, despite being from Sussex himself.

And yet, for all that, he's outperformed every past England manager with the exception of Alf Ramsay. It isn't luck - he's done it in the last two tournaments and nobody is writing off England in this one because we do score goals under Southgate.

So what is his secret? I can only think he picks players he trusts to be good squad people despite not necessarily being good enough (I'm looking at Henderson and Maguire here) and they repay his faith for that. The media problems are also a thing of the past under Southgate - that can't be a coincidence. But why?

I've seen/read a number of ex England players talking about how England was something to be endured rather than enjoyed, how every game was a slog and never felt easy. I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it. Southgate appears to have completely changed that feeling. The players seem to genuinely enjoy going to England camps and being with each other. That is, I think, his main achievement.

His squad selections are baffling at times and I agree that he must be selecting players that he both trusts and has the right kind of personality to not rock the feel good nature of England camps. I wouldn't point to Henderson and Maguire there though - they both play in positions where we're relatively thin on the ground and, despite current club form are amongst the best we have in that position.

Instead I'd look at Mings and Coady. Two players who have rarely troubled the starting 11 but were selected in squad after squad. Both appear to be the right sort of charachter for Southgate's squad. I think Henderson and Maguire might have been phased out if Southgate thought we had clearly superior alternatives. His loyalty to Mings and Coady has meant we haven't had the opportunity to see if there are better alternatives.

Whatever his secret he's managed a run of tournamnet performances/results that can only be bettered by Sir Alf. If we manage to beat the French then surely the whingers and naysayers will have to start holding their hands up and admit they might have got it wrong. Unfortunately there are probably longer odds on them doing that than there are on England winning!

 

[Brovion]

Genuine question. Why do people think Southgate has succeeded where other (frankly more respected) managers have failed? I mean, I don't agree with a lot of his squad selections, he appears slow to find his best team once we're in the tournament, and when things do go wrong, he rarely makes the right changes to swing the game in our favour. What's more, I'd still shudder if he was ever appointed the Albion, despite being from Sussex himself.

And yet, for all that, he's outperformed every past England manager with the exception of Alf Ramsay. It isn't luck - he's done it in the last two tournaments and nobody is writing off England in this one because we do score goals under Southgate.

So what is his secret? I can only think he picks players he trusts to be good squad people despite not necessarily being good enough (I'm looking at Henderson and Maguire here) and they repay his faith for that. The media problems are also a thing of the past under Southgate - that can't be a coincidence. But why?

It's a good question and no I can't answer it. He DOES pick his favourites, not on players on form, he CAN be out-thought by better game managers, he IS often over-cautious .... and yet he's won as many tournament knock-out games in 4 years than all his predecessors combined managed in 48, and his tournament record reads (currently) semi-finals, finals, and quarter-finals - and maybe further.

And as you say such consistency isn't just down to luck, or the fact we've never played anybody decent, or if we have played anybody decent then they've got the worst team in living memory, or any of the other excuses trotted out by the increasingly-desperate anti-Southgate, don't-care-about England lobby (who will all cream themselves if we lose to France next week). I guess the somewhat-prosaic truth is that his good points outweigh his faults. International management is after all a different kettle of fish to club management, and for all his successes I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Albion hot seat.

But fair play, he's leaving some legacy.

 

[Mellotron]

Genuine question. Why do people think Southgate has succeeded where other (frankly more respected) managers have failed? I mean, I don't agree with a lot of his squad selections, he appears slow to find his best team once we're in the tournament, and when things do go wrong, he rarely makes the right changes to swing the game in our favour. What's more, I'd still shudder if he was ever appointed the Albion, despite being from Sussex himself.

And yet, for all that, he's outperformed every past England manager with the exception of Alf Ramsay. It isn't luck - he's done it in the last two tournaments and nobody is writing off England in this one because we do score goals under Southgate.

So what is his secret? I can only think he picks players he trusts to be good squad people despite not necessarily being good enough (I'm looking at Henderson and Maguire here) and they repay his faith for that. The media problems are also a thing of the past under Southgate - that can't be a coincidence. But why?

I think along with any good qualities Southgate possesses, we have also massively underperformed at points, especially between 1996-2010.

 

[KZNSeagull]

The France game is also on ITV, so let's hope so.

It's on the beeb as Strictly has moved to Sunday.

 

[1066familyman]

Genuine question. Why do people think Southgate has succeeded where other (frankly more respected) managers have failed? I mean, I don't agree with a lot of his squad selections, he appears slow to find his best team once we're in the tournament, and when things do go wrong, he rarely makes the right changes to swing the game in our favour. What's more, I'd still shudder if he was ever appointed the Albion, despite being from Sussex himself.

And yet, for all that, he's outperformed every past England manager with the exception of Alf Ramsay. It isn't luck - he's done it in the last two tournaments and nobody is writing off England in this one because we do score goals under Southgate.

So what is his secret? I can only think he picks players he trusts to be good squad people despite not necessarily being good enough (I'm looking at Henderson and Maguire here) and they repay his faith for that. The media problems are also a thing of the past under Southgate - that can't be a coincidence. But why?

Great question, and some excellent answers so far.

In simplistic terms, I think he's very much in the current Albion mode.

He takes #together to a different level.

Where Potter has the degree in emotional intelligence, it seems Southgate has got the degree, the masters, and is currently on his PhD

Would I want Southgate at our club? No thanks! I'd rather watch DeZerbi ball week in week out without a shadow of a doubt.

Yes, in pure footballing ability terms, Southgate can make some baffling selections. He can be out thought by opposition managers during a game. He can be over cautious. But when it comes to managing a team through a tournament, he's superb IMHO. Remember that old saying about the Germans and tournament football? How they 'always find a way'. Well to me that's the direction Southgate has moved us in, and long may it continue I say!

 

[US Seagull]

Great question, and some excellent answers so far.

In simplistic terms, I think he's very much in the current Albion mode.

He takes #together to a different level.

Where Potter has the degree in emotional intelligence, it seems Southgate has got the degree, the masters, and is currently on his PhD

Would I want Southgate at our club? No thanks! I'd rather watch DeZerbi ball week in week out without a shadow of a doubt.

Yes, in pure footballing ability terms, Southgate can make some baffling selections. He can be out thought by opposition managers during a game. He can be over cautious. But when it comes to managing a team through a tournament, he's superb IMHO. Remember that old saying about the Germans and tournament football? How they 'always find a way'. Well to me that's the direction Southgate has moved us in, and long may it continue I say!

Not to be that guy, (but totally going to be that guy anyway). Potter has a Masters