[Misc] Working from Home - Have we seen a sea change ?

[MJsGhost]

See above...

Fair dos. We're lucky in that we have a break clause we can activate in December to move out in May. I'm predicting an offer of reduced rent so we'll have to weigh up the ballache of moving and saving more in a smaller office, or staying put with a discount.

I know someone unlucky enough to have over 4 years left on her company's office lease, having just moved to bigger premises to allow for expansion before things kicked off in China. She almost took an even bigger place, so is counting her (relative) blessings on that front.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the commercial real estate market in the next few years...

 

[mikeyjh]

Fair dos. We're lucky in that we have a break clause we can activate in December to move out in May. I'm predicting an offer of reduced rent so we'll have to weigh up the ballache of moving and saving more in a smaller office, or staying put with a discount.

I know someone unlucky enough to have over 4 years left on her company's office lease, having just moved to bigger premises to allow for expansion before things kicked off in China. She almost took an even bigger place, so is counting her (relative) blessings on that front.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the commercial real estate market in the next few years...

You have to think it's going to plummet, many companies were already looking more and more at how to reduce their office space - A very large local employer were, pre lockdown, running at about 65% desk to employee ratio, assuming the balance were on hols, travelling or WFH, goal now is to reduce this considerably, even considering that business travel is also going to be dramatically reduced for the foreseeable.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

I'm a teacher so luckily for me I'll always be wanted on site when possible.

However, working from home was a NIGHTMARE. Myself and the Mrs trying to work in a tiny 2-bed house, often one on the kitchen table and one on the bed, 2 small kids running around (yes I know that there would be a general expectation that childcare would still be arranged - but for kids under school age they are often at home with the other partner who is part-time or on maternity/paternity leave). And we're lucky, many people I know live in smaller houses/flats or even houseshares where they literally just have the one room.

It's interesting that to some this idea of the disappearance of the traditional office and everyone working from home is some sort of utopia, whereas to me it seems like some sort of dystopian nightmare: wake up, travel all of 2 metres to stare at a screen all day from the same room as your bed, stop for meals, go to bed.

My concern is that the people who will make the decisions regarding future working habits (i.e. the bosses and company owners) will probably have had a good experience of working from home - they're likely to be older and higher earners, so are more likely to live in larger houses with better work space and less likely to have smaller kids on the scene.

I've been trying to convince the leadership at the school I work at to make the school available as a workspace to staff at weekends and late into the evenings, although fallen on deaf ears so far with that.

 

[HastingsSeagull]

Best post I've seen on NSC since the start of covid. Couldn't agree more and in similar situation here. Will be amazing for certain families, but not suit most. Expect some of those to try and play the system rather than be realistic and for it to often not work out how many expect.

I'm a teacher so luckily for me I'll always be wanted on site when possible.

However, working from home was a NIGHTMARE. Myself and the Mrs trying to work in a tiny 2-bed house, often one on the kitchen table and one on the bed, 2 small kids running around (yes I know that there would be a general expectation that childcare would still be arranged - but for kids under school age they are often at home with the other partner who is part-time or on maternity/paternity leave). And we're lucky, many people I know live in smaller houses/flats or even houseshares where they literally just have the one room.

It's interesting that to some this idea of the disappearance of the traditional office and everyone working from home is some sort of utopia, whereas to me it seems like some sort of dystopian nightmare: wake up, travel all of 2 metres to stare at a screen all day from the same room as your bed, stop for meals, go to bed.

My concern is that the people who will make the decisions regarding future working habits (i.e. the bosses and company owners) will probably have had a good experience of working from home - they're likely to be older and higher earners, so are more likely to live in larger houses with better work space and less likely to have smaller kids on the scene.

I've been trying to convince the leadership at the school I work at to make the school available as a workspace to staff at weekends and late into the evenings, although fallen on deaf ears so far with that.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'm a teacher so luckily for me I'll always be wanted on site when possible.

However, working from home was a NIGHTMARE. Myself and the Mrs trying to work in a tiny 2-bed house, often one on the kitchen table and one on the bed, 2 small kids running around (yes I know that there would be a general expectation that childcare would still be arranged - but for kids under school age they are often at home with the other partner who is part-time or on maternity/paternity leave). And we're lucky, many people I know live in smaller houses/flats or even houseshares where they literally just have the one room.

It's interesting that to some this idea of the disappearance of the traditional office and everyone working from home is some sort of utopia, whereas to me it seems like some sort of dystopian nightmare: wake up, travel all of 2 metres to stare at a screen all day from the same room as your bed, stop for meals, go to bed.

My concern is that the people who will make the decisions regarding future working habits (i.e. the bosses and company owners) will probably have had a good experience of working from home - they're likely to be older and higher earners, so are more likely to live in larger houses with better work space and less likely to have smaller kids on the scene.

I've been trying to convince the leadership at the school I work at to make the school available as a workspace to staff at weekends and late into the evenings, although fallen on deaf ears so far with that.

I can appreciate exactly what you are saying, and it is only too easy to ignore this situation when you have enough space for an 'office' at home where you are not disturbed, or have immediate responsibilities that have to be addressed.

It's interesting the Utopia/dystopia thing, because from the little background you have given, why should two adults working full time (one of whom at least, is a qualified professional having studied for years) have to try to live and bring up a family in a 'tiny 2 bedroom house' ? I believe it is because of the whole property, North/South, South-East, London situation which has been allowed (or designed) to develop over my lifetime.

Maybe, the sea change of the last few months, will help the situation, almost certainly not in my lifetime, and probably not in yours, but maybe for the kids you teach ? I certainly hope so,

Yours, as ever,

The Optimist

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Boris - Everyone back to work

Hancock - everyone get ready for second lock down

Shambles.

 

[yxee]

I'm really wondering what the right approach is here.

The "all in on Monday, max 3 days wfh per week" sounds like a sensible compromise although you have the issue of creating peak demand for office space on Monday with lots of empty desks the rest of the week which is costly.

Perhaps if it is done like this but with a different day for each team it'll work better. Eg marketing come in Monday, sales Tuesday, and so on, and then rotate?

I'm most worried about new joiners. How can anyone learn when they aren't surrounded by people? Open plan offices are designed to maximize coincidental interactions and collaboration, WFH is the antithesis of that.

And of course we need to fix the ridiculous train ticket issue that makes 3 days a week the same price as 5 days a week. They NEED to start offering flexible season tickets (max 3 days a week).

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'm really wondering what the right approach is here.

The "all in on Monday, max 3 days wfh per week" sounds like a sensible compromise although you have the issue of creating peak demand for office space on Monday with lots of empty desks the rest of the week which is costly.

Perhaps if it is done like this but with a different day for each team it'll work better. Eg marketing come in Monday, sales Tuesday, and so on, and then rotate?

I'm most worried about new joiners. How can anyone learn when they aren't surrounded by people? Open plan offices are designed to maximize coincidental interactions and collaboration, WFH is the antithesis of that.

And of course we need to fix the ridiculous train ticket issue that makes 3 days a week the same price as 5 days a week. They NEED to start offering flexible season tickets (max 3 days a week).

It's interesting because there are undoubtedly issues with WFH, but because companies and people have been forced into it, I believe a lot of issues (both real and envisaged) have been overcome because there was no alternative.

I think going forward, the number of people who WFH completely will be fairly small, but the number 'mixed working' and only going into offices part time will be very significant. And this percentage change to Office working will still have huge impacts on food outlets, supporting services, transport, property prices etc.

I really can't see it going back close to what it was pre-lockdown, no matter how much the leader of our country wants it to and threatens people otherwise.

 

[keaton]

It just seems a really odd thing for the government to prioritise or get involved in. Kids are just about to go back to school, why add more pressure to the roads and public transport and increase contact between people.
We're only just allowed to start doing things watching football in limited numbers, why increase the risk for people who are able to carry on working fairly normally. Especially when most in people do not envisage going to back 5 days in the office ever again

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

It just seems a really odd thing for the government to prioritise or get involved in. Kids are just about to go back to school, why add more pressure to the roads and public transport and increase contact between people.
We're only just allowed to start doing things watching football in limited numbers, why increase the risk for people who are able to carry on working fairly normally. Especially when most in people do not envisage going to back 5 days in the office ever again

Not hard to understand when you realise that commercial property landlord Tory donors are leaning hard on the Government to prevent the downsizing of company offices by encouraging the cannon fodder to pack out transport into to work.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not hard to understand when you realise that commercial property landlord Tory donors are leaning hard on the Government to prevent the downsizing of company offices by encouraging the cannon fodder to pack out transport into to work.

Richard Tice has been particularly vocal.

 

[Jim in the West]

Not hard to understand when you realise that commercial property landlord Tory donors are leaning hard on the Government to prevent the downsizing of company offices by encouraging the cannon fodder to pack out transport into to work.

Much as commercial property landlords will be desperate to see a return to "normality", it'll be the companies that rent the space who dictate things. My cousin works for HSBC - their current working assumption is that staff will return to the office sometime "well into 2021", and even then there will be multiple options for home-working. Some other financial institutions have already stated they expect their staff to continue working from home permanently. The genie is out of the bottle. Companies can see huge savings from down-sizing corporate HQs, etc. Especially in London. It's also a great opportunity to re-imagine the city, convert office space to residential, etc, and (hopefully) re-balance the supply/demand equation for housing in the South East.

And it is completely ludicrous for the Government to be encouraging people back into packed public transport and office space, whilst at the same time forcing people to quarantine on returning from a (mainly) outdoor foreign holiday. The inconsistencies in government advice are crazy.

 

[timbha]

Don’t write off the benefits of office working. A senior spokesman from PwC was recently explaining that there is good reason for people working together, sharing ideas and experiences, solving problems as a group and meeting face to face. We’ve all had mentors and role models who we just liked bumping into and having a 5 minute chat with. Who are the younger generation going to model themselves on? Max Headroom who appears on their lap top screens twice a day??

WFH will work in moderation but I suspect most of the advocates are thinking of the benefits it will bring them rather than the organisations they work for.

Will road sweepers (if they still exist) be allowed to WFH??

 

[keaton]

WFH will work in moderation but I suspect most of the advocates are thinking of the benefits it will bring them rather than the organisations they work for.

Will road sweepers (if they still exist) be allowed to WFH??

It will save the companies/ organisations money in rent/energy/security/facilities/staff travel expenses and time etc

Street sweepers will probably have an easier commute and less pollution

 

[beorhthelm]

It just seems a really odd thing for the government to prioritise or get involved in.

not really, its a major part of the economy involved, dispersed across country.

 

[Hampster Gull]

For sure, accelerated the trend by id guess 10 years

 

[drew]

Don’t write off the benefits of office working. A senior spokesman from PwC was recently explaining that there is good reason for people working together, sharing ideas and experiences, solving problems as a group and meeting face to face. We’ve all had mentors and role models who we just liked bumping into and having a 5 minute chat with. Who are the younger generation going to model themselves on? Max Headroom who appears on their lap top screens twice a day??

WFH will work in moderation but I suspect most of the advocates are thinking of the benefits it will bring them rather than the organisations they work for.

Will road sweepers (if they still exist) be allowed to WFH??

The point is that it is horses for courses.

People will adapt. It wasn't too many decades ago that our economy was more manufacturing than services. Most worked in factories and the like. Over the last 50 years they moved into offices so whats to stop things adapting again over the next few decades, possibly sooner as the pace of change quickens. Technology will also advance. The major thing stopping it is resistance to change. Those that think the only way to get a good deal is down at the local Davy's Wine Bar. I suspect as the younger generation, who probably embrace new technology quicker, climb the managerial ranks things will change.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

I don't see why we should be forced back into an outmoded way of working just to keep Pret A Manger open and to enrich companies who own or let offices. If a model is redundant, it will fail and should not artificially be kept alive. Surely that's capitalism?

 

[BUTTERBALL]

There's no going back to how it was before. Companies can see it doesn't affect productivity, in fact quite the opposite, whist offering up huge cost savings for many businesses.

 

[beorhthelm]

The point is that it is horses for courses.

People will adapt. It wasn't too many decades ago that our economy was more manufacturing than services. Most worked in factories and the like. Over the last 50 years they moved into offices so whats to stop things adapting again over the next few decades, possibly sooner as the pace of change quickens. Technology will also advance. The major thing stopping it is resistance to change. Those that think the only way to get a good deal is down at the local Davy's Wine Bar. I suspect as the younger generation, who probably embrace new technology quicker, climb the managerial ranks things will change.

its not a technology problem, its human nature. deals and infomation sharing is usually done better in person. its been practical for video conference calls for decades, yet execs would still spend large amounts on international travel. dont make same connections with people over a skype call. as WFH increases, so will a more distant relation with the business, workers becoming more like contractors, freelancers.