[Help] Wood Burners - price and installation advice

[Bodian]

I really struggle with the current doom ladened view of wood burning stoves. More polluting than diesel trucks etc banded around seems ludicrous.

It was only a few years ago that biomass boilers were a necessity to get Part L approvement due to their zero carbon performance. Projects in London 'forced' to have these along with the transport emissions to ship in the fuel. Crazy stuff and now they are trying to condemn occasional use of wood burners. That was always a sh*t idea but that was the direction forced through, no doubt due to lobbying from biomass companies.

Stick tax on aviation fuel, stop building new cars right now (electric on not), use what we have and travel less, eat a predominantly vegetarian diet and see the benefits environmentally. But no, too difficult and this capitalist society cannot deliver meaningful change. The answer? Pick on something relatively irrelevant to whinge about so as being seen to care (Governments, not us poor saps that are 'governed' by fools)

Also, the research was from before house-coal and wet wood sales were banned. Burning 'dry' wood and smokeless coal only reduces particulate emissions hugely. That was the point of the ban. It will be interesting to see if they repeat the research.

 

[Blue3]

I recently undertaken a cost benefit analysis of buying installation and running costs over a 15 years average life span of log burners

Year 1 Multi fuel log burner purchase cost £500
Twin walled flue as no chimney present £500
Installation £1,000
Building regulations requirements £100
Fuel kiln dried logs £140 per cubic meter estimated use through heating season 3.5 cubic meters total fuel cost per year £490
Years 2 to 14 fuel £490 per year plus maintenance £100 per year
Total cost over lifespan includes burner install £10,750
Cost per year over 15 years £716.667

 

[chip]

I really struggle with the current doom ladened view of wood burning stoves. More polluting than diesel trucks etc banded around seems ludicrous.

It was only a few years ago that biomass boilers were a necessity to get Part L approvement due to their zero carbon performance. Projects in London 'forced' to have these along with the transport emissions to ship in the fuel. Crazy stuff and now they are trying to condemn occasional use of wood burners. That was always a sh*t idea but that was the direction forced through, no doubt due to lobbying from biomass companies.

Stick tax on aviation fuel, stop building new cars right now (electric on not), use what we have and travel less, eat a predominantly vegetarian diet and see the benefits environmentally. But no, too difficult and this capitalist society cannot deliver meaningful change. The answer? Pick on something relatively irrelevant to whinge about so as being seen to care (Governments, not us poor saps that are 'governed' by fools)

I'm with you on all this. In any case it seems tyres are even worse: https://www.theguardian.com/environ...e-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show

I've always had a wood burner/fire/stove. You can boil water and dry clothes when the tumble dryer breaks. A lot of it is ritual and atmosphere but I'm a rural dweller not an urbanista so probably have a different view to some. I'm also Nihlistic enough to be more concerned by noise pollution from cars and planes (my motorbikes make a lovelly noise) than PM2.5/5/10 pollution.

 

[Jim in the West]

I really struggle with the current doom ladened view of wood burning stoves. More polluting than diesel trucks etc banded around seems ludicrous.

It was only a few years ago that biomass boilers were a necessity to get Part L approvement due to their zero carbon performance. Projects in London 'forced' to have these along with the transport emissions to ship in the fuel. Crazy stuff and now they are trying to condemn occasional use of wood burners. That was always a sh*t idea but that was the direction forced through, no doubt due to lobbying from biomass companies.

Stick tax on aviation fuel, stop building new cars right now (electric on not), use what we have and travel less, eat a predominantly vegetarian diet and see the benefits environmentally. But no, too difficult and this capitalist society cannot deliver meaningful change. The answer? Pick on something relatively irrelevant to whinge about so as being seen to care (Governments, not us poor saps that are 'governed' by fools)

Obviously it's a personal choice (at the moment). If you want to risk generating the particulates in your own home, then fine (why not take up smoking, too?). And don't expect your neighbours to be too happy, either.

 

[Horses Arse]

Obviously it's a personal choice (at the moment). If you want to risk generating the particulates in your own home, then fine (why not take up smoking, too?). And don't expect your neighbours to be too happy, either.

Studies and data such as that are so easily manipulated to generate a view or create a distraction. Studies based on wet/unseasonal wood for example. Poor install and hence draft etc

As someone else mentioned, tyres are next up with elec cars generating most harmful tyre debris due to the battery weight.

Noise to distract from what matters and what works, which they don't want to deal with. They just want everyone to consume.

Remember diesel cars and how environmental they were? Now they're supposedly toxic. Truth somewhere in between.

I drive a diesel too, keep my cars until they are no longer moving, far more sustainable that getting a new car every time someone decides to set up another distraction.

What sort of power, cooling and hence emissions do you reckon arise due to idiot football fans posting on forums? Doesn't even generate useful heat!



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[Horses Arse]

Also, the research was from before house-coal and wet wood sales were banned. Burning 'dry' wood and smokeless coal only reduces particulate emissions hugely. That was the point of the ban. It will be interesting to see if they repeat the research.

Doubt it, such news generates useful distractions. Didn't realise it was such an old study. Ridiculous

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[Rogero]

We had our wood burner on tonight . First time this season .

 

[raymondo]

We had our wood burner on tonight . First time this season .

Second evening for us in deepest Wiltshire! It's the cosy feeling and takes the evening chill off the downstairs without putting on the gas boiler.

 

[raymondo]

I recently undertaken a cost benefit analysis of buying installation and running costs over a 15 years average life span of log burners

Year 1 Multi fuel log burner purchase cost £500
Twin walled flue as no chimney present £500
Installation £1,000
Building regulations requirements £100
Fuel kiln dried logs £140 per cubic meter estimated use through heating season 3.5 cubic meters total fuel cost per year £490
Years 2 to 14 fuel £490 per year plus maintenance £100 per year
Total cost over lifespan includes burner install £10,750
Cost per year over 15 years £716.667

Good analysis. We only use about 1.5 meters per heating season (small stove) so much less for us. Plus we turn the gas heating down when the stove's on.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

I'm with you on all this. In any case it seems tyres are even worse: https://www.theguardian.com/environ...e-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show

I havent tried burning tyres on the wood burner - I'll give it a go

 

[mikeyjh]

I recently undertaken a cost benefit analysis of buying installation and running costs over a 15 years average life span of log burners

Year 1 Multi fuel log burner purchase cost £500
Twin walled flue as no chimney present £500
Installation £1,000
Building regulations requirements £100
Fuel kiln dried logs £140 per cubic meter estimated use through heating season 3.5 cubic meters total fuel cost per year £490
Years 2 to 14 fuel £490 per year plus maintenance £100 per year
Total cost over lifespan includes burner install £10,750
Cost per year over 15 years £716.667

I'd question some of these costings? £500 would be at the really really cheap end of the market and the install costs seem a little light. That's an okay price I guess for SE England for a cubic metre of kiln dried hardwood but can most people take delivery of 2 bulk bags at a time??

 

[Bold Seagull]

Studies and data such as that are so easily manipulated to generate a view or create a distraction. Studies based on wet/unseasonal wood for example. Poor install and hence draft etc

As someone else mentioned, tyres are next up with elec cars generating most harmful tyre debris due to the battery weight.

Noise to distract from what matters and what works, which they don't want to deal with. They just want everyone to consume.

Remember diesel cars and how environmental they were? Now they're supposedly toxic. Truth somewhere in between.

I drive a diesel too, keep my cars until they are no longer moving, far more sustainable that getting a new car every time someone decides to set up another distraction.

What sort of power, cooling and hence emissions do you reckon arise due to idiot football fans posting on forums? Doesn't even generate useful heat!

Diesel cars were never 'environmental' just supposedly more fuel efficient, but burning fuel to move vehicles has never been environmental so to speak.

Electric cars are also not environmental - just less harmful than an combustion engine. But again, the is energy still being used, chemicals in the batteries, tyres being used etc.

I do agree we continue to consume and move on to the next thing. Replacing all combustion cars with electric is not the answer. But then burning stuff isn't either, no matter how dry or well sourced the wood.

 

[Papak]

I recently undertaken a cost benefit analysis of buying installation and running costs over a 15 years average life span of log burners

Year 1 Multi fuel log burner purchase cost £500
Twin walled flue as no chimney present £500
Installation £1,000
Building regulations requirements £100
Fuel kiln dried logs £140 per cubic meter estimated use through heating season 3.5 cubic meters total fuel cost per year £490
Years 2 to 14 fuel £490 per year plus maintenance £100 per year
Total cost over lifespan includes burner install £10,750
Cost per year over 15 years £716.667

Interesting.

What is in your maintenance cost? Annual sweeping?

Your cost of fuel is I would say on the high side but what you quote for installation is quite low. I have ~2 winters of fuel for probably less than £200 but I have some stuff to cutdown here plus I was lucky to pick up some large tree trimming for free locally. There are an enormous number of trees down due to recent storms.

Capital cost of equipment also possibly lower than typical but you are also not including the potential increase in property price which I suspect makes 10 or 15 year cost of ownership neutral.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Thinking of getting a Wood Burner, but guess I’m going to have to run it past Norman first ,

 

[Horses Arse]

I'd question some of these costings? £500 would be at the really really cheap end of the market and the install costs seem a little light. That's an okay price I guess for SE England for a cubic metre of kiln dried hardwood but can most people take delivery of 2 bulk bags at a time??

I don't think wood burners would ever beat using an existing gas fired heating system economically unless you've a free and continuous source of firewood. Always amazes me how much wood stores shrink during the heating season. As gas prices continue to rise I'd imagine the same would happen to firewood costs.

 

[mikeyjh]

I don't think wood burners would ever beat using an existing gas fired heating system economically unless you've a free and continuous source of firewood. Always amazes me how much wood stores shrink during the heating season. As gas prices continue to rise I'd imagine the same would happen to firewood costs.

I tend to agree - We have a free supply as we've got a few acres of woodland but it's not unlimited so we've bought some this year, our wood shed is probably about 30 cubic metres but we'll easily go through it and that's just for wood burners in kitchen/dining room and lounge. It does help because there's only the 2 of us so we won't have the the thermostat very high at all as we don't want to heat the whole house! Long story short though, no, you can't compare wood burners with whole house central heating unless you have some sort of new fandangled system.

 

[Papak]

I don't think wood burners would ever beat using an existing gas fired heating system economically unless you've a free and continuous source of firewood. Always amazes me how much wood stores shrink during the heating season. As gas prices continue to rise I'd imagine the same would happen to firewood costs.

Very true. I'm cutting down my somewhat enormous and very ugly and annoying leylandii which are ~30 years old for use in the coming winters. I was also lucky enough to nab some free firewood on Facebook Marketplace earlier this year before the crazy energy price increases so I'm good until hopefully this gas and electric nonsense blows over. I won't be replacing the trees...

Fortunately it is still mild for the time of year so no need to have the heating on just yet.

 

[Blue3]

I recently undertaken a cost benefit analysis of buying installation and running costs over a 15 years average life span of log burners

Year 1 Multi fuel log burner purchase cost £500
Twin walled flue as no chimney present £500
Installation £1,000
Building regulations requirements £100
Fuel kiln dried logs £140 per cubic meter estimated use through heating season 3.5 cubic meters total fuel cost per year £490
Years 2 to 14 fuel £490 per year plus maintenance £100 per year
Total cost over lifespan includes burner install £10,750
Cost per year over 15 years £716.667

My sister in law is currently having a log burner installed the installation appears to be a bit rough but it’s not finished yet, once up and running I will be able to compare my estimates with actuals

 

[B-right-on]

I recently undertaken a cost benefit analysis of buying installation and running costs over a 15 years average life span of log burners

Year 1 Multi fuel log burner purchase cost £500
Twin walled flue as no chimney present £500
Installation £1,000
Building regulations requirements £100
Fuel kiln dried logs £140 per cubic meter estimated use through heating season 3.5 cubic meters total fuel cost per year £490
Years 2 to 14 fuel £490 per year plus maintenance £100 per year
Total cost over lifespan includes burner install £10,750
Cost per year over 15 years £716.667

I pay £95 for a ton bag of dried logs delivered to Shoreham. I have an open fire so get thru more than a log burner would and I just about get thru 3 bags if it's a cold winter. If it's mild, 2 bags is enough. Make a fire pretty much every day, started a couple of weeks ago and been enough to heat up the house without the need for the heating on. Not yet turned it on.

 

[mikeyjh]

I pay £95 for a ton bag of dried logs delivered to Shoreham. I have an open fire so get thru more than a log burner would and I just about get thru 3 bags if it's a cold winter. If it's mild, 2 bags is enough. Make a fire pretty much every day, started a couple of weeks ago and been enough to heat up the house without the need for the heating on. Not yet turned it on.

Fun fact, a 'ton' or 'bulk' bag of firewood will weigh about 200kg. No, not fun really. They're sometimes also described as a cubic metre when in fact they tend to be just over 1/2 a cubic metre. Still not fun, I know.