[Football] Women's World Cup

[trueblue]

Bright up front seemed sensible as a last ditch measure. Disrupting the whole team once 13 minutes stoppage time was indicated…. Surely a rethink?

 

[Is it PotG?]

We never really turned up today.

Boooooooo.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Spain are the better team. We look one dimensional, may be an unpopular opinion but China and Australia apart we’ve been disappointing.

In Earps though must have the best keeper in the world.

Edit - Full time - Great achievement to make the final nonetheless

 

[Stato]

Spain have been very professional. People will moan about the falling over, but we would be cheering if it were the other way around.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Might have made that bit of difference if any of our royal lot had been arsed to get out there.

 

[hart's shirt]

Spain will be a wholly different proposition, especially after what we saw at the Euros.

They outplayed England at the Amex for much of the game and ended up with more possession, shots on and off target.

Despite a very bad group result against Japan, they've hit their stride now.

And so it sadly proved.

That Japan 4-0 group stage loss galvanised Spain. They just got better and better.

Deserved winners of the tournament in the significantly harder side of the draw.

That said, England with all their key injuries going in the competition did extremely well. A first Final is a huge achievement.

 

[Is it PotG?]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...nt-womens-world-cup-final-spain-jenni-hermoso

 

[amexer]

Have really enjoyed the world cup from the quarter final stage. Since the final the media have completely over hyped the womens game. I am sure deservedly with the great income from world cup all England squad will have earned very good money. Hopefully with this interest crowds will increase but the reality is attendances will still be in region of 1 to 3k.
What womens football and cricket has done in last few years is to make it the norm for young girls to play which is fantastic. But until they start getting crowds of 10/15k for league games lets stop all this talk of pro women players been treated the same as men. Have also heard so many conversations about more money needs to be invested. You tell that to Tony Bloom who spent £10m plus for additional training facilities. Appreciate not ideal playing at Crawley but his reward for this investment is gates of 1/1500k gates at £5 a ticket.
It is great how the game has improved so much but instead of say Albion emailing me offering ST at £50ish they have to realise I and many others will not give up 2 days to watch football at the weekend and to make it viable they need to attract a new audience that prefers the womens game and will pay a realistic price for tickets

 

[timbha]

Have really enjoyed the world cup from the quarter final stage. Since the final the media have completely over hyped the womens game. I am sure deservedly with the great income from world cup all England squad will have earned very good money. Hopefully with this interest crowds will increase but the reality is attendances will still be in region of 1 to 3k.
What womens football and cricket has done in last few years is to make it the norm for young girls to play which is fantastic. But until they start getting crowds of 10/15k for league games lets stop all this talk of pro women players been treated the same as men. Have also heard so many conversations about more money needs to be invested. You tell that to Tony Bloom who spent £10m plus for additional training facilities. Appreciate not ideal playing at Crawley but his reward for this investment is gates of 1/1500k gates at £5 a ticket.
It is great how the game has improved so much but instead of say Albion emailing me offering ST at £50ish they have to realise I and many others will not give up 2 days to watch football at the weekend and to make it viable they need to attract a new audience that prefers the womens game and will pay a realistic price for tickets

Good post. I also find it concerning that Starmer is calling for the squad to be given honours. Is he really comparing them to Moore, Charlton, Hurst, etc? Nowhere near. Not yet anyway.
Women’s football has come a long way and the standard has improved immensely. Let’s see how the gap between men’s and women’s football closes in the next ten years, in terms of attendances, quality, interest, etc.
It hasn’t changed a great deal in cricket other than by the attempts of the TV providers to kid us that it is popular by playing men’s and women’s cricket at the same place on the same day. The grounds are nearly empty when the women play.

 

[Hamilton]

Have really enjoyed the world cup from the quarter final stage. Since the final the media have completely over hyped the womens game. I am sure deservedly with the great income from world cup all England squad will have earned very good money. Hopefully with this interest crowds will increase but the reality is attendances will still be in region of 1 to 3k.
What womens football and cricket has done in last few years is to make it the norm for young girls to play which is fantastic. But until they start getting crowds of 10/15k for league games lets stop all this talk of pro women players been treated the same as men. Have also heard so many conversations about more money needs to be invested. You tell that to Tony Bloom who spent £10m plus for additional training facilities. Appreciate not ideal playing at Crawley but his reward for this investment is gates of 1/1500k gates at £5 a ticket.
It is great how the game has improved so much but instead of say Albion emailing me offering ST at £50ish they have to realise I and many others will not give up 2 days to watch football at the weekend and to make it viable they need to attract a new audience that prefers the womens game and will pay a realistic price for tickets

I hear what you are saying, but we have to remember that it is a man's world. Everything has been created around men. That's the privilege we have grown up with.

Families go to watch top flight teams play because over generations, the is all they have ever known. First class cricket teams have been built up over two centuries based on male privilege. We are talking about changing many decades of inequality.

Grayson Perry's book, The Descent of Man, is a brilliant observation of privilege. For most men - myself included - we fail to realise how we have been born into a world where everything has been designed around us. Because so much is happening today to address that inequality, we can be confused into thinking it has gone away, but it hasn't. Most companies are run by men. Most algorithms reflect male prejudice (see Alexa who was unable to identify that there was an England v Australia football match because it wasn't a men's match.) Ten years ago Havard did a study that showed how more men get promoted, women don't , despite having the same skills. This is because male privilege is anchored in both the male and female pysche.

I think the point you make about making it the norm for girls to start playing those sports is bang on. It'll change the pipeline of talent coming through. But I think that we need positive discrimination to change both male and female attitudes towards spectator sports. It is having an effect. I think we will see crowds nudge upwards, but it'll need help. Just look at how attitudes on this board have changed over the past couple of years.

One day, maybe the whole model will change. I don't know how, but maybe clubs and communities will be able to put their women's and men's teams in the same shop window and we won't think twice about it - it'll just be the right thing to do.

Lastly, and just a point to underline privilege and unconscious bias. I overheard a young chap talking to a friend in a pub garden on Suday. He seemed like a totally nice guy. He just said, "Well, they've done better then we have. They've got to a World Cup final, and we haven't." There was no emphasis on the 'we', so he wasn't trying to make some contextual point. The point is, who is 'we?'

Not looking to get into a fight here. Just raising another point to add to the mix and enjoying the debate.

 

[Gwylan]

What womens football and cricket has done in last few years is to make it the norm for young girls to play which is fantastic.

Don't forget rugby - WC finalists there too (and arguably only lost when down to 14 players). And with the World Cup coming to England in two years time, it will be a chance to see some top players.

I may be biased because I coach a girls team* but IMHO, women's rugby is the team sport that has really matched (or exceeded) the men's version.

You love to see the strides that women have made in football, cricket and rugby - the sports have a far higher profile now, long may it continue. As for claims that they're not attracting crowds, they're starting a long, long way behind the men's game. Give them some time.

* [shameless plug] And if anyone has a daughter, sister or niece interested in playing, I'd be delighted to talk more. We're always looking for players. [/shameless plug]

 

[amexer]

I hear what you are saying, but we have to remember that it is a man's world. Everything has been created around men. That's the privilege we have grown up with.

Families go to watch top flight teams play because over generations, the is all they have ever known. First class cricket teams have been built up over two centuries based on male privilege. We are talking about changing many decades of inequality.

Grayson Perry's book, The Descent of Man, is a brilliant observation of privilege. For most men - myself included - we fail to realise how we have been born into a world where everything has been designed around us. Because so much is happening today to address that inequality, we can be confused into thinking it has gone away, but it hasn't. Most companies are run by men. Most algorithms reflect male prejudice (see Alexa who was unable to identify that there was an England v Australia football match because it wasn't a men's match.) Ten years ago Havard did a study that showed how more men get promoted, women don't , despite having the same skills. This is because male privilege is anchored in both the male and female pysche.

I think the point you make about making it the norm for girls to start playing those sports is bang on. It'll change the pipeline of talent coming through. But I think that we need positive discrimination to change both male and female attitudes towards spectator sports. It is having an effect. I think we will see crowds nudge upwards, but it'll need help. Just look at how attitudes on this board have changed over the past couple of years.

One day, maybe the whole model will change. I don't know how, but maybe clubs and communities will be able to put their women's and men's teams in the same shop window and we won't think twice about it - it'll just be the right thing to do.

Lastly, and just a point to underline privilege and unconscious bias. I overheard a young chap talking to a friend in a pub garden on Suday. He seemed like a totally nice guy. He just said, "Well, they've done better then we have. They've got to a World Cup final, and we haven't." There was no emphasis on the 'we', so he wasn't trying to make some contextual point. The point is, who is 'we?'

Not looking to get into a fight here. Just raising another point to add to the mix and enjoying the debate.

Some interesting points but you are looking at the sexist issues. I am not. I have same feelings when I often read Accrington Stanley owner saying they should be given more money. With gates of 1500 I just think how can they justify running a club with such a lack of interest and income. Exactly how I feel about womens football. Overall I have little time for PL but to there credit all clubs seem to be throwing money at the womens game which of course mens game is paying for.
My main point to end up justifying this, attendances must increase and to do this a new audience that prefers watching womens football needs to be attracted.
Another subject i know but Of course it is great that women are now treated as equals but please thankfully there outlook is different in many ways. I was in senior management and out of many staff there were 3 outstanding women who could have reached the top. It didnt matter how much I pushed them 2 them had other priorities ie relationships families etc. That will never change

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

This!

 

[timbha]

View attachment 165304

This!

Reminds me of the time little kids started asking for an Albion kit

 

[mikeyjh]

Good post. I also find it concerning that Starmer is calling for the squad to be given honours. Is he really comparing them to Moore, Charlton, Hurst, etc? Nowhere near. Not yet anyway.
Women’s football has come a long way and the standard has improved immensely. Let’s see how the gap between men’s and women’s football closes in the next ten years, in terms of attendances, quality, interest, etc.
It hasn’t changed a great deal in cricket other than by the attempts of the TV providers to kid us that it is popular by playing men’s and women’s cricket at the same place on the same day. The grounds are nearly empty when the women play.

I find that sentence problematic and part of why some regard the game as 'inferior' - Women's football suffers when it is compared with the men, I think it's far better to consider the Women's game in its own right and enjoy it for what it is. - Different.

 

[AK74]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...nt-womens-world-cup-final-spain-jenni-hermoso

View attachment 165293

Nobody expects the Spanish exhibition.

 

[timbha]

I find that sentence problematic and part of why some regard the game as 'inferior' - Women's football suffers when it is compared with the men, I think it's far better to consider the Women's game in its own right and enjoy it for what it is. - Different.

You’ve chosen to only quote the part of my sentence that suits your argument. Isn’t it fair to make a judgement on popularity and interest?

Reaching the WC Final might be the pinnacle for England’s women, or it could just be the start. I think it’s dangerous to base growth predictions on the back of the euphoria of reaching the WC Final. Other countries are doing well too.

I remember getting carried away with men’s hockey and GB curling once upon a time.

Yes, women’s football is different but it’s still the same game.

Football is for everyone.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I find that sentence problematic and part of why some regard the game as 'inferior' - Women's football suffers when it is compared with the men, I think it's far better to consider the Women's game in its own right and enjoy it for what it is. - Different.

Yes it's different, and should be judged on its own merits, a bit like women's tennis. But I still find it annoying when so many passes and shots go astray, and goalkeepers flap at shots etc. What I find even more annoying is that we're not really allowed to say that a shot was awful, or that the goalie should have got the ball. It's treated in a very precious way, as if no one can make a mistake or fluff their lines. It's all so euphemistic -- "she may look at that tomorrow and wonder if her positioning could have been better" instead of the criticism and ridicule we frequently see in the men's game. I speak as someone who's been to see women's football a few times at Lewes and enjoyed it. and who is very keen to give it a chance. But this tournament didn't grab me at all (not helped by the match times). I saw a big improvement between the last world cup and the one before, but the 23 tournament seemed a bit substandard to me. I watched the final on playback and ended up fast-forwarding through much of it, it was so dull and mistake-laden.

Sorry if I've broken the 4th wall here by calling it out but I feel it needs to be said -- the England team were a bit shit. I thought the Haitians and Nigerian, Colombian, Japanese (at times) teams touched on being genuinely entertaining and properly skilful but most of the Europeans? Not so much.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Yes it's different, and should be judged on its own merits, a bit like women's tennis. But I still find it annoying when so many passes and shots go astray, and goalkeepers flap at shots etc. What I find even more annoying is that we're not really allowed to say that a shot was awful, or that the goalie should have got the ball. It's treated in a very precious way, as if no one can make a mistake or fluff their lines. It's all so euphemistic -- "she may look at that tomorrow and wonder if her positioning could have been better" instead of the criticism and ridicule we frequently see in the men's game. I speak as someone who's been to see women's football a few times at Lewes and enjoyed it. and who is very keen to give it a chance. But this tournament didn't grab me at all (not helped by the match times). I saw a big improvement between the last world cup and the one before, but the 23 tournament seemed a bit substandard to me. I watched the final on playback and ended up fast-forwarding through much of it, it was so dull and mistake-laden.

Sorry if I've broken the 4th wall here by calling it out but I feel it needs to be said -- the England team were a bit shit. I thought the Haitians and Nigerian, Colombian, Japanese (at times) teams touched on being genuinely entertaining and properly skilful but most of the Europeans? Not so much.

Didn't think they were a bit shit. Did think they looked a bit, er, beefy. Which, against a younger, nimbler Spanish team, made them play a bit leggy

 

[Is it PotG?]

England fans left GUTTED