[Football] Women’s football, do you watch it?

[hart's shirt]

Why are they saying Ellen White has now moved above Bobby Charlton and Harry Kane in the all-time England scoring records ? She got her 50th tonight in another 10-0 win (woohoo!), but are we seriously mixing up the men and womens scoring records at International level now ?

England have a goal difference of 63-0 from 7 qualifying games in their group. Well done Ellen and all that, but I'm not entirely sure I can seriously see you sandwiched between Rooney and Kane/Charlton in the scoring charts.

Come on.

Yes, it's quite ridiculous. And that's not denigrating White's outstanding achievement in any way.

Just as the argument that the men's and women's game shouldn't be compared is valid, equally records shouldn't be combined.

The BBC summary section on the game has 'White heads in 50th goal for Lionesses - three short of Rooney's England record'.

They've got a lot of previous here, but now it seems ITV are doing the same.

The first seeds of this were probably sown back in 2019 when the FA combined the men and women on their cap wall.

 

[Binney on acid]

No.

 

[swindonseagull]

North Macedonia 0 England 10.........whats the point/?

 

[Easy 10]

Yes, it's quite ridiculous. And that's not denigrating White's outstanding achievement in any way.

Just as the argument that the men's and women's game shouldn't be compared is valid, equally records shouldn't be combined.

The BBC summary section on the game has 'White heads in 50th goal for Lionesses - three short of Rooney's England record'.

They've got a lot of previous here, but now it seems ITV are doing the same.

The first seeds of this were probably sown back in 2019 when the FA combined the men and women on their cap wall.

View attachment 146728

TalkSport radio too.

Who on earth suddenly decided that the stats from the mens and womens sides of International football in this country needed to be combined ? Do they do it in any other country ? In any other sport ? It doesn't happen in counting up the majors in golf or tennis. So why mix it up in International football ?

They do it in the Olympics, but then that IS a combined Team GB all competing within their own (highly competative) disciplines to win medals for Britain. But THIS ? If (when) White surpasses Rooney, if anyone describes her as "Englands greatest ever goalscorer" I'll struggle to suppress a laugh.

 

[hart's shirt]

If (when) White surpasses Rooney, if anyone describes her as "Englands greatest ever goalscorer" I'll struggle to suppress a laugh.

You might not have to wait too long.

They're playing Northern Ireland on Wednesday.

 

[Easy 10]

You might not have to wait too long.

They're playing Northern Ireland on Wednesday.

Indeed. She could easily.

If one of the BHA women scored 37 goals in a season, which would be outstanding, would that then officially usurp Peter Ward's record season ?

How about one of the women accumulating 112 goals, to knock Glenn Murray down into 3rd place. Historical records sent tumbling by mixing up the stats from the men and womens game, as England are now actively doing - anyone on here up for that ? Asking for a friend.

 

[hart's shirt]

Indeed. She could easily.

If one of the BHA women scored 37 goals in a season, which would be outstanding, would that then officially usurp Peter Ward's record season ?

How about one of the women accumulating 112 goals, to knock Glenn Murray down into 3rd place. Historical records sent tumbling by mixing up the stats from the men and womens game, as England are now actively doing - anyone on here up for that ? Asking for a friend.

Fair comment. And I've just checked - it's Tuesday that England play Northern Ireland. So laughs incoming in 3, 2, 1...

The only possible excuse behind combining records is that it aims to increase the visibility of women's football.

But piggybacking by association (football) with men isn't sensible. It's risible and in reality sets the women's game back.

Women should have their own separate records and stats.

No help in comparing, no sense in combining.

 

[Robinjakarta]

No. Not the slightest interest.

 

[cunning fergus]

Indeed.

CF is comparing apples with oranges when saying because a woman can fight for her country / become a firefighter / police officer she should also be allowed to take part in male contact sports. Its a nonsense argument conflating war/conflict with sport. Commentators and the media often like to make military-like comparisons "you'd want him next to you in the trenches" etc - but only CF seems to think this should now be taken in a literal sense into mens contact sport.

I just wonder where all this would be heading in CF's brave new sporting world. Mixed Olympic sports, where males/females compete against each other ? That'd be fun eh.

I see, so in your assessment despite women in the police and armed forces (since 2016), being trained to confront and/or confronting violent men, these dangers would be eclipsed in the sporting world should it create mixed gender sports?

I think professional sports women, like their peers in the police and armed forces, would prefer to take that risk for a number of reasons including most importantly that they would finally have access to the riches of male only sport.

This is the point isn’t it, and why the Government is mandating the numbers of women on the boards of U.K. listed businesses. The types of rule changes can be translated to sport an no doubt there will need to be a reduction to some physical aspects of sport and quotas will be necessary………….football is already different from the 70s, we will get used to it.

 

[Easy 10]

I see, so in your assessment despite women in the police and armed forces (since 2016), being trained to confront and/or confronting violent men, these dangers would be eclipsed in the sporting world should it create mixed gender sports?

I think professional sports women, like their peers in the police and armed forces, would prefer to take that risk for a number of reasons including most importantly that they would finally have access to the riches of male only sport.

This is the point isn’t it, and why the Government is mandating the numbers of women on the boards of U.K. listed businesses. The types of rule changes can be translated to sport an no doubt there will need to be a reduction to some physical aspects of sport and quotas will be necessary………….football is already different from the 70s, we will get used to it.

Once again, you're directly applying aspects of careers involving war and conflict, to what is an entertainment industry. They are not the same, neither can they be considered as such.

If women were introduced into mens football, then the quality of the product would inevitably suffer because of the physical disparities. I don't WANT to watch a game where the physical aspects are curtailed and new laws introduced to change the game forever, in order to cater for women being on the same pitch as men. Thats not the game anyone grew up with, and I think you'd be VERY hard-pushed to find anyone who would be in favour of it, even amongst women.

The fact they can't earn as much as men in football is not entirely accurate. The USA Womens team won a lawsuit earlier this year to gain parity with the USA Mens team when representing their country (and given their success on the World stage compared with the men, you could certainly see its justified). Could that translate to here ? Internationally perhaps, but I can't see it happening on the domestic (ie PL) front any time soon, because there simply isn't the comparable audience for it. And thats not a justifiable reason IMO to "mix it all up" in our domestic leagues to allow women into mens teams, just so they can start coining it at the same level.

The womens game must stand or fall on its own merits. Obliterating the womens game in order to accommodate men and women on the same pitch at a professional / elite level will achieve one thing and one thing only - ruining the mens AND the womens games, at a stroke.

Its a bonkers idea, and I'm still not sure if you're on a devils advocate wind-up tbh. But its a quiet afternoon, so..

 

[Phil B]

fixture

Tuesday 12th 19.55

 

[cunning fergus]

Once again, you're directly applying aspects of careers involving war and conflict, to what is an entertainment industry. They are not the same, neither can they be considered as such.

If women were introduced into mens football, then the quality of the product would inevitably suffer because of the physical disparities. I don't WANT to watch a game where the physical aspects are curtailed and new laws introduced to change the game forever, in order to cater for women being on the same pitch as men. Thats not the game anyone grew up with, and I think you'd be VERY hard-pushed to find anyone who would be in favour of it, even amongst women.

The fact they can't earn as much as men in football is not entirely accurate. The USA Womens team won a lawsuit earlier this year to gain parity with the USA Mens team when representing their country (and given their success on the World stage compared with the men, you could certainly see its justified). Could that translate to here ? Internationally perhaps, but I can't see it happening on the domestic (ie PL) front any time soon, because there simply isn't the comparable audience for it. And thats not a justifiable reason IMO to "mix it all up" in our domestic leagues to allow women into mens teams, just so they can start coining it at the same level.

The womens game must stand or fall on its own merits. Obliterating the womens game in order to accommodate men and women on the same pitch at a professional / elite level will achieve one thing and one thing only - ruining the mens AND the womens games, at a stroke.

Its a bonkers idea, and I'm still not sure if you're on a devils advocate wind-up tbh. But its a quiet afternoon, so..

To be genuinely honest I think that view is entirely fair, I am an fashioned liberal I have no difficulty with opinions not aligned with my own.

As I said at the start, IF those supporting the women’s game want parity with the men’s game the most effective route would be the creation of mixed gendered teams. Yes the laws of the game will need to change however we are dealing with VAR and other changes, possibly outlawing heading to come, so nothing will stay the same forever.

Wage parity for me is the be all and end all of gender equality, nothing is more important. It is why the Government expressly legislate for it and require public listed companies to publish wage disparity and where it exists how firms will reduce the gap. In this realm the are penalties and enforcement tools available to the government. The days of male only boards etc. are gone.

Your views on what you want are laudable however the wage disparity between the men and women’s game will be a stain on genuine equality, notwithstanding the US national team. I think mix gendered teams are coming due to it being the only realistic measure that will achieve wage parity.

Gird your loins……..