[Football] Women's Football - Discuss

[Knocky's Nose]

The average attendances in the WSL last season was 953.

Given that fact, I am frankly ASTONISHED at the sheer amount of coverage it gets on TV and in the media in general. I have no objection whatsoever to them playing and having their own Leagues. But its a niche sport, piggybacking off the men's game, and completely unsustainable on a professional level. It cannot stand on its own two feet, and is being financially propped up because there simply is not the interest or appetite for it.

There are lost of positives of course. Inclusiveness, aspiration for girls and women to take the game up, none of that could ever be a bad thing. But in terms of a spectacle - I'm not interested in paying for it, or reading about it, any more than I'd feel like going down my local bowls club on a Sunday and watching a few old duffers play a match against the Arundel Zimmers, or whoever. And I certainly wouldn't expect to see a prominant match report on it on the BBC or Guardian website.

Its basically a PC bandwagon. Play by all means, but only a handful of folk are actually watching, and a fair old slab of those will just be family and friends.

I'm probably going to be admonished for this, but I agree entirely with the above.

My little niece is an extremely talented player for Eastbourne Borough Girls so I fully support that side of it but yes, the trumpets are being tooted way louder than the game deserves at the moment. It's the PC brigade waving the baton, and the press playing the tune.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

The most interesting thing is that the dialogue often revolves around young girls/women needing pathways and role models etc ins sports.

As yet though despite being at least half the population of most nations the female half don't really support women's sport as spectators given how large a group of people they are.

Women's sport will only grow in size and marketability if women support it.

So either women just aren't interested in women's sports or given a restriction on time and money they would prefer to go watch the highest standard of a sport that they can.

 

[Hamilton]

And that's great. If you love football, you love football - no matter what standard.

I think the thing which is starting to grate on people's nerves is the fact they're wheeling out Women's football 'vets' who have played at what is Conference level (at best) and are asking them to critique Premier League football? It's just a bit forced, and not quite right.

It's like asking Joey Deakin to commentate on the Mens Olympic 100m Final sometimes.... (You have to be a certain age to laugh at that)

And to that I will just ask anyone whether they rather listen to Alex Scott or Martin Keown.

I’m sure I can rest my case there. [emoji3]


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[nwgull]

Its basically a PC bandwagon. Play by all means, but only a handful of folk are actually watching, and a fair old slab of those will just be family and friends.

A few sex pests as well.

 

[Knocky's Nose]

And to that I will just ask anyone whether they rather listen to Alex Scott or Martin Keown.

I’m sure I can rest my case there. [emoji3]

Sadly, I'd much rather listen to a radiator with an airlock issue.

 

[Hamilton]

Guys, the women’s game was banned by the FA until the 1970s.

Trying to compare the popularity of the women’s game to the men’s when there has only been a few years of investment in the game is just silly. It is going to take time.

Even then, comparing the style of the two games is not a good idea. It’s the same sport, but a different game. If you watch it without trying to compare it, then it becomes a more interesting spectacle.

Understandably, men and women are less likely to take to the game at first. We’ve had very little exposure to it and the players applying their trade have had very little training compared to their male counterparts. There is only one way to address that, and it is with investment.

To many women, football is still a hostile environment. Most would still not consider going to watch a men’s game with all its TV razzmatazz and advertising, so why would they consider going to Crawley to watch The Albion? Attitudes need to change over time from all parts of society.

Will the women’s game ever be as big as the men’s. No. But could it be much bigger? Yes. And why not? It’s everyone’s game.


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[dsr-burnley]

In terms of sustainability, Albion's women made a loss of £655,696 for the 11 month time period which ended 30th June 2018.
The previous loss was £360,984 for 7th July 2016 - 31 July 2017.
https://twitter.com/RichJLaverty/status/1113744447374802944

With Albion in their first season as a WSL side, one wonders what the 2018-2019 figures will look like.

That's why there is all the publicity. Vast amounts of money being spent, and they're trying to justify it.

Level 8 of the mens' pyramid has clubs averaging 500 or so, which is what Brighton and some other full time professional ladies' clubs get. 500 attendance, 9 home league games, plus I dare say some cup ties - and £655k losses. That means that the organisation has lost £130 per spectator per game. That level of subsidy can't be kept up, especially if it's coming from the men's team. The whole thing is built on sand - what happens if Brighton do go down and the board decide that they can't afford to fund the women's team?

Women's football can be very good. I saw an Island Games match between Iceland and Aland, 5-4 to Iceland, that was an excellent game - but it wasn't so technical as the game in this country. They concentrate too much on tippy-tappy and technical ability, and not enough blood and thunder, up and at 'em, get it into the penalty area. Playing like Barcelona is all well and good if you can do it; but two sides playing like Barcelona, and doing it badly, is a more boring than playing like John Beck.

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

Guys, the women’s game was banned by the FA until the 1970s.

Trying to compare the popularity of the women’s game to the men’s when there has only been a few years of investment in the game is just silly. It is going to take time.

Even then, comparing the style of the two games is not a good idea. It’s the same sport, but a different game. If you watch it without trying to compare it, then it becomes a more interesting spectacle.

Understandably, men and women are less likely to take to the game at first. We’ve had very little exposure to it and the players applying their trade have had very little training compared to their male counterparts. There is only one way to address that, and it is with investment.

To many women, football is still a hostile environment. Most would still not consider going to watch a men’s game with all its TV razzmatazz and advertising, so why would they consider going to Crawley to watch The Albion? Attitudes need to change over time from all parts of society.

Will the women’s game ever be as big as the men’s. No. But could it be much bigger? Yes. And why not? It’s everyone’s game.


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Totally agree. I'm happy for the Albion men's team to subsidise the women's. Giving the women's game more profile (even if it is not demand led) will encourage more women and girls to get involved, which will only improve the quality on the pitch over time.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

While I can't bear the tediously overused term 'PC brigade', the fact remains that the women's game is being force-fed to us to such an extent that one is made to feel disloyal for not joining the manufactured clamour to watch and support the Albion's women's team.

To check out whether mine's a case of prejudice overriding objectivity, I tune in occasionally to the women's football programme that follows Match of the Day. Despite participating teams being tagged 'elite', what is actually screened seems lamentably undeserving of that description. All too often, a hopefully lobbed scoring attempt will result in the ball whistling past a static, diminutive goalkeeper who weirdly makes no attempt whatsoever to prevent the goal. And the passing and tackling is all too often comically inadequate. If that's the standard achieved at elite level, one wonders what the rest is like.

So it's a no from me: and surely, grim viewing for anyone other than those associated with the players.

Despite all that, I earnestly hope the standard improves quickly, and that people come to enjoy watching and playing the game. Of course women should be able to participate in football at any level. Just don't expect thousands of us to take to it any time soon.

 

[Bob'n'weave]

While I can't bear the tediously overused term 'PC brigade', the fact remains that the women's game is being force-fed to us to such an extent that one is made to feel disloyal for not joining the manufactured clamour to watch and support the Albion's women's team.

To check out whether mine's a case of prejudice overriding objectivity, I tune in occasionally to the women's football programme that follows Match of the Day. Despite participating teams being tagged 'elite', what is actually screened seems lamentably undeserving of that description. All too often, a hopefully lobbed scoring attempt will result in the ball whistling past a static, diminutive goalkeeper who weirdly makes no attempt whatsoever to prevent the goal. And the passing and tackling is all too often comically inadequate. If that's the standard achieved at elite level, one wonders what the rest is like.

So it's a no from me: and surely, grim viewing for anyone other than those associated with the players.

Despite all that, I earnestly hope the standard improves quickly, and that people come to enjoy watching and playing the game. Of course women should be able to participate in football at any level. Just don't expect thousands of us to take to it any time soon.

This. Putting it on TV next to MOD when the standard of football is Sunday league does feel like we are being told it is as important as the male game and we should be watching it. Forced and falsely represented as equal to the skill level and popularity of the PL.

 

[Gwylan]

While I can't bear the tediously overused term 'PC brigade', the fact remains that the women's game is being force-fed to us to such an extent that one is made to feel disloyal for not joining the manufactured clamour to watch and support the Albion's women's team.

"Force fed"? According to Anna Kessel's Eat Sweat Play (an essential read if you want to talk about women's sport), just 2% of national sports coverage is devoted to women's sport. That doesn't sound like force fed to me, that's the scraps from the table.

It's ridiculous to talk about lack of interest in women's football in this country - the sport's not 50 years old yet. It has next to no coverage, only a small amount of sponsorship (just 0.4% of all sport sponsorship according to Kessel's book) and is dealing with generations of entrenched attitudes.

Things will change: more girls are playing football, there are more female sports journalists, there's more coverage, there's more sponsorship now and all this will have a knock-on effect.

But I suspect crowds will be low for a while yet, it's not going to happen overnight, but things will change.

There was a great article by Brian Moore in the Telegraph a couple of weeks ago when he said that female participation in rugby was absolutely essential for the game to grow; without women, the sport would die. We're not at that stage in football but women will increasingly be seen as a vital part of the game.

 

[Ubuntu]

I have a 12 and a 9 year old daughter, both Season ticket Holders at Amex, and have also been to see The Albion ladies play at Crawley and we will all be there this Sunday.. (2 days on the trot.. I may as well move in this weekend)

Both my daughters play and frankly, skills and physicality aside I would rather the women got more press to encourage them rather than ponce about on Roblox or Minecraft or whatever else may remove them from the outdoors.

 

[Easy 10]

The prominence and coverage that the Women's "Super" League gets in our media now is ENTIRELY out of wack with the numbers who have enough interest to actually turn up and watch it. The average attendances last season in the WSL dropped from 1,128 the previous year, down to 833.

833.

How on earth those kind of numbers are supposed to support a professional league is baffling. About half the teams in the National League South (the likes of Billericay, Dartford, Slough Town, Wealdstone) and 20 out of 22 teams in the National Legaue North (Alfreton Town, Leamington, Curzon Ashton) average more than that - and I don't see any of them featuring prominently on the front sports webpages of the BBC or the Guardian every day. Neither do they get regular national TV coverage. Nor do their players get invited into a studio at a World Cup or Premier League stadium, or onto Match of the Day, to pass comment on the game.

Womens football and the WSL is just another niche sport, like fencing, or canoeing. Except for some reason, its being hyped to the 9's these days. I'll continue to try to ignore it, but its getting more and more difficult as they continue to spam it onto us with posters, emails etc. I wish I could find an opt-out somehow.

 

[Seasidesage]

Women's football? Great hope they enjoy it. I loved playing football when I was younger, I didn't expect to have it promoted or even prize money with men's professional sport and neither should women until the interest justifies it, but that's not to say they shouldn't enjoy playing.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

"Force fed"? According to Anna Kessel's Eat Sweat Play (an essential read if you want to talk about women's sport), just 2% of national sports coverage is devoted to women's sport. That doesn't sound like force fed to me, that's the scraps from the table.

My use of "force-fed" related to the extent and prominence of Albion Women news stories on the club site, with their somewhat misleading click bait headlines like "Man City tickets now on sale!". Those of us on the club's mailing list will routinely find similarly disproportionate coverage of the women's game.

The motivations are understandable, but it all does seem a bit deperate.

 

[Chicken Run]

The prominence and coverage that the Women's "Super" League gets in our media now is ENTIRELY out of wack with the numbers who have enough interest to actually turn up and watch it. The average attendances last season in the WSL dropped from 1,128 the previous year, down to 833.

833.

How on earth those kind of numbers are supposed to support a professional league is baffling. About half the teams in the National League South (the likes of Billericay, Dartford, Slough Town, Wealdstone) and 20 out of 22 teams in the National Legaue North (Alfreton Town, Leamington, Curzon Ashton) average more than that - and I don't see any of them featuring prominently on the front sports webpages of the BBC or the Guardian every day. Neither do they get regular national TV coverage. Nor do their players get invited into a studio at a World Cup or Premier League stadium, or onto Match of the Day, to pass comment on the game.

Womens football and the WSL is just another niche sport, like fencing, or canoeing. Except for some reason, its being hyped to the 9's these days. I'll continue to try to ignore it, but its getting more and more difficult as they continue to spam it onto us with posters, emails etc. I wish I could find an opt-out somehow.

This.

 

[Chicken Run]

While I can't bear the tediously overused term 'PC brigade', the fact remains that the women's game is being force-fed to us to such an extent that one is made to feel disloyal for not joining the manufactured clamour to watch and support the Albion's women's team.

To check out whether mine's a case of prejudice overriding objectivity, I tune in occasionally to the women's football programme that follows Match of the Day. Despite participating teams being tagged 'elite', what is actually screened seems lamentably undeserving of that description. All too often, a hopefully lobbed scoring attempt will result in the ball whistling past a static, diminutive goalkeeper who weirdly makes no attempt whatsoever to prevent the goal. And the passing and tackling is all too often comically inadequate. If that's the standard achieved at elite level, one wonders what the rest is like.

So it's a no from me: and surely, grim viewing for anyone other than those associated with the players.

Despite all that, I earnestly hope the standard improves quickly, and that people come to enjoy watching and playing the game. Of course women should be able to participate in football at any level. Just don't expect thousands of us to take to it any time soon.

As 1901 member apparently I don’t have to pay to get in on Sunday nor a guest, however it’s all I can do to motivate myself to turn up on Saturday let alone Sunday, tbh they could offer me a limo return transfer with lap dancers and free booze all afternoon and I wouldn’t go.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I'm completely at odds with some of the views on here.

Football grew as a male sport through the 1800s into the 20thCentury when attitudes toward women prevent their participation in the game, or other sports for that matter difficult, frowned up or whatever else.

In order for girls to get into the sport and enjoy it, they need to see inspiration and success, and in turn participation and interest will grow. It is about face, but it is necessary in order to grow this part of the game, and it will be worth it if girls get into the sport in much greater numbers than they do now.

I do say this as a manager of an U15 girls team, and have been involved in girls football for a while, I've met George Parris a few times and what his team are doing over at Lancing, and how the approach of promoting the game will help this side to grow. I also know many of the girls that play will be going on Sunday, and the England Women's international in the summer

It might seem pointless now, but if in a few, or 5 or 10 years there are many more girls playing football, being active and having fun, then it is genuinely a good thing.

It isn't a niche sport for the girls that play. It's still the beautiful game. Great that the media covers it, are we really saying the male game needs anymore coverage, podcasts, column inches, blogs etc. than it already gets that it can't spare a bit of time for the Women's game? Come on, behave.

 

[Albion Prem]

It does feel as if it's over promoted and a tad forced out of being politically correct and due to equality.

If women want to play, fair play to them, it's a sport after all and if you enjoy it, good on you......

But the simple fact is, as entertainment, the tandard is pretty rubbish and I personally don't want to watch non league standard footie masquerading as something elite level.

I wonder if you took the England women's team, how far down the men's football pyramid would you get to before it would be evenly matched up? I'm guessing below conference level.

Quite agree if women want to kick a ball about,fine but dont try to imply its anything like the real thing.
Its getting unreal to pick up a newspaper be attracted to the headline that United had a penalty in the last minute then find its a report about a womens team ,each inch of space given over to the womens game is an inch lost to ours, by all means put them in a pull out.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Totally agree. I'm happy for the Albion men's team to subsidise the women's. Giving the women's game more profile (even if it is not demand led) will encourage more women and girls to get involved, which will only improve the quality on the pitch over time.

Would you be happy for the Albion men's team to subsidise the women's when we are forced to pay them equal wages and we have to lower our standards for the men's team? Don't laugh, it is on the table for discussion.