[Football] Women's Euro 2022 Final- England v Germany 31.07.2022- OFFICIAL THREAD

[e77]

Record of both national teams since 2017:

2017: Women semi finals of European Championships
2018: Men 4th in World Cup
2019: Women 4th in World Cup
2021: Men runners up in European Championships
2022: Women won European Championships

So five tournaments in a row where we at least got to the semi final. I grew up watching England in the 80s and 90s and a semi final appearance in 1990 wad followed by a first round exit in the Europeans followed by not qualifying in 94. 96 was followed by not qualifying in 98.

I know it is frustrating that the men haven't won anything since 66 but Southgate has done better than almost all England managers before him and seems to attract the blame for historic failures rather than what he has achieved.

We are actually living through a successful period for English football. Howard Wilkinson started the process of concentrating on coaching and we are seeing the benefits across the board now.

 

[Stato]

I heard her say the reason she took her shirt of was to replicate Bobby Zamora’s play off final goal celebration for QPR -
She is big QPR fan and it was that BZ moment that help inspire her to do well in the game

I think that she said that she got a 'Bobby Z moment', but it couldn't have been the inspiration for pulling the shirt off because Bob didn't do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC7HBrDgmHI&t=1s

 

[amexer]

With 2 sides going through from groups of 4 which are seeded its not exactly hard to get get into quarter finals these days.

 

[ozzygull]

Personally I just cannot relate to that at all. For me, the (mens) World Cup is such a seismic event, it completely takes over my sporting consciousness for the whole month that its on. I gorge on the entire tournament, with the England games acting as beacons on the calendar amongst the avalanche of football that plays out on my TV. I barely miss a game.

The upcoming one in Qatar is wrong for so many reasons, and I can understand people boycotting it out of distaste for the human rights issues there. But I simply don't have the discipline, or scruples I guess, to turn my back on it. I'm going to be ALL OVER it.

The women winning the Euros was like your son passing his driving test first time.
The men winning the World Cup would be like Myleene Klass slowly unbuckling and pulling down your trousers, then a £50k winning lottery scratchcard falling out your back pocket.

Firstly I have a daughter and when she past her drivng test fist time, I was very pleased for her but the realisation of her now wanting a car and insurance cost tempered the excitment.
secondly I am a women so the first part would not appeal, but the lottery ticket win would be very handy.

I will be genuinlly pleased for you and the millions of others if the England men's team win the world cup. I am not trying to tell you are wrong, it just we feel differently about it.

 

[Stato]

The Mirror has a piece about Zamora and Kelly talking on morning tv that talks of Bob's QPR goal and describes him as someone who "played for the likes of Fulham, Tottenham and West Ham." Like saying Johnny Marr is the former guitarist with Electronic, Modest Mouse and The Cribs.

 

[Badger Boy]

I think that she said that she got a 'Bobby Z moment', but it couldn't have been the inspiration for pulling the shirt off because Bob didn't do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC7HBrDgmHI&t=1s

I was going to say I couldn't recall him ever doing that celebration! Amazing how your memory can play tricks on you.

 

[Wozza]

The issues were caused by people being utter di*cks. The authorities deserve criticism for not adequately preparing for what was entirely predictable bad behaviour...

Can't argue with that.

 

[hart's shirt]

Like I said just after the final, it was every bit intentional.

A tribute to Brandi Chastain. Players had been ripping off their shirts for years with no consequence but once a woman did it 1999, it took less than a year for FIFA to make it an offense. Why? Because of ****ed up conservative, puritan, sexist ideas. Man is celebrating a goal ripping his shirt off - perfectly fine, we see a bloke celebrating and thats that. Woman doing the same thing - oh it is too sexual for television, because in the minds of some the female body is just about sex. But for some women, probably Kelly included, this is just horseshit - if a bloke can do it, she can do it, without it being wrong or sexual or whatever.

Pretty sure some BBC executives were panicking, thinking about swiftly changing the program to something less dangerous and immoral than the female body, perhaps a war movie or something.

Quick polite correction, Swanny. I let it slide the first time you mentioned it, but can't really do it the 2nd!

It was on 1st July 2004, when FIFA brought in yellow cards for post-goal shirt removal for 'unsporting conduct'.

So not less than a year, but almost 5 years after Chastain removed her shirt on 10th July 1999.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150512140833/http://www.fifa.com/development/news/y=2004/m=6/news=clarification-law-yellow-card-for-removal-jersey-92958.html

One can imagine that plenty of men had removed their shirts after scoring goals during 1999-2004.

It's a bit of a leap of faith to imagine that FIFA's decision was taken on anti-women "****ed up conservative, puritan, sexist ideas".

It's much more likely that refs were simply tired of telling male players to put their shirts back on afterwards.


Edit - Gaby Hinsliff of The Guardian clearly believes it as well as shown in her article from this morning.

"...it was also a conscious homage to the American player Brandi Chastain, who was criticised for doing the same thing in the 1999 World Cup. (Fifa promptly banned shirtless goal celebrations for both male and female players.)."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/02/lionesses-won-women-football

 

[Swansman]

Quick polite correction, Swanny. I let it slide the first time you mentioned it, but can't really do it the 2nd!

It was on 1st July 2004, when FIFA brought in yellow cards for post-goal shirt removal for 'unsporting conduct'.

So not less than a year, but almost 5 years after Chastain removed her shirt on 10th July 1999.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150512140833/http://www.fifa.com/development/news/y=2004/m=6/news=clarification-law-yellow-card-for-removal-jersey-92958.html

One can imagine that plenty of men had removed their shirts after scoring goals during 1999-2004.

It's a bit of a leap of faith to imagine that FIFA's decision was taken on anti-women "****ed up conservative, puritan, sexist ideas".

It's much more likely that refs were simply tired of telling male players to put their shirts back on afterwards.

I stand corrected. I misread an interview with Chastain.

Did not think it was a leap of faith really - we all know that FIFA is a pretty flawed organisation. If some Saudi-Russian-Yank TV maestro would have said "if I see anything resembling boobs on TV - I'm not buying the rights to your tournament", it wouldn't really surprise me. But indeed you're right.

Still, I read a book a couple of years ago about Chastains celebration, how it was percieved from various media outlets etc. and about how it was reported and analysed at the time and while she actually had no idea behind it, it turned out political in the end, not least because a huge part of the media made it all about the body & boobs rather than the goal. I really think Chloe Kelly had Chastians legendary moment and her own political motivations behind it, as everyone could see it was 100% planned.

 

[herecomesaregular]

These are super fit flat chested athletes, not much boobs on display tbf (sadly, haha). Personally, my first thought was she was being paid to advterise the nike(?) sportsbra.

 

[Easy 10]

Re the shirt removal thing. I might be imagining this, but I'm sure I vaguely recall a (male) footballer scoring, removing his shirt, twirling it round his head, and then spending an AGE trying to get it back on again, because the shirt had some kind of internal "vest" netting that had gotten all tangled up during his exuberant goal celebration. There was the comical sight of him trying to untangle it (with the help from people on the sidelines) and get it back on as the ref less-than-patiently waited to restart the game.

It might have been an International match. If my memory isn't playing tricks then I'm pretty sure this was one of the primary reasons FIFA/UEFA decreed that removing the shirt to celebrate a goal = mandatory yellow.

 

[Bodian]

Re the shirt removal thing. I might be imagining this, but I'm sure I vaguely recall a (male) footballer scoring, removing his shirt, twirling it round his head, and then spending an AGE trying to get it back on again, because the shirt had some kind of internal "vest" netting that had gotten all tangled up during his exuberant goal celebration. There was the comical sight of him trying to untangle it (with the help from people on the sidelines) and get it back on as the ref less-than-patiently waited to restart the game.

It might have been an International match. If my memory isn't playing tricks then I'm pretty sure this was one of the primary reasons FIFA/UEFA decreed that removing the shirt to celebrate a goal = mandatory yellow.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/2249322/forlan-explains-celebration#:~:text=%22The%20only%20problem%20that%20I,'t%20get%20it%20on.%22

The ref didn't wait though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk6hbO53lzY

 

[Easy 10]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/2249322/forlan-explains-celebration#:~:text=%22The%20only%20problem%20that%20I,'t%20get%20it%20on.%22

The ref didn't wait though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk6hbO53lzY

Oh well found

 

[dsr-burnley]

Nailed it.

Suzy Wrack on Guardian Football Weekly somehow interpreted it as Kelly pausing to consider the booking, and then thought "to hell with it". Absolute bobbins. She clearly paused on ripping off her shirt to look over her shoulder first and check the lino (and potential VAR), before deciding to go for it. Spontaneous - that ain't.

Meanwhile, The Daily Mail headline shrieks: "IN A WORLD WHERE WOMENS VERY EXISTANCE IS BEING DENIED, THIS GLORIOUS SHOW OF BOLD FEMININITY CAN CHANGE THE WORLD"

It was a great celebration. But are we in danger of starting to overstate this....a tad ?

A matter of priorities, isn't it. Obviously (like every other fool, male o r female) who takes their shirt off to celebrate a goal) she risked getting a second booking, getting sent off, costing your team the cup. But what's that in comparison to making a bold show for femininity?

Why don't they take a sock off instead? It's just as effective a statement, and doesn't carry a booking.

I think even more stupid was kicking the ball away in the last minute. She got away with it.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Oh well found

In the depths of winter, the lads in my sons u11s team tend to wear ‘skins’ (lycra leggings and long sleeve tops) under their match kit. Three minutes before kick off at a home match last season, our right back suddenly realised he’d forgotten to put his shorts on before leaving his house, ffs

Nobody had any spares, so he had no option but to play wearing just his shirt and a pair of black tights, like he was doing some piece of modern interpretative dance.

 

[ozzygull]

I have just bought a ticket for the Lionesses friendly against USA (European Champions V World Champions) It took ages to get a ticket, now it saying if you join the queue there maybe only hospitality seats left.

There was a tweet at 10:00 this morning saying 65,000 tickets had already been sold.

On top of that Brighton tweeted their WSL season ticket sales are up 255%

It looks like, in the short term at least, that this team have really made people pay attention to the women's game.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A matter of priorities, isn't it. Obviously (like every other fool, male o r female) who takes their shirt off to celebrate a goal) she risked getting a second booking, getting sent off, costing your team the cup. But what's that in comparison to making a bold show for femininity?

Why don't they take a sock off instead? It's just as effective a statement, and doesn't carry a booking.

I think even more stupid was kicking the ball away in the last minute. She got away with it.

It wasn’t a show for femininity. She did it as a tribute to Brandi Chastain.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/chloe-kelly-football-brandi-chastain-sports-bra-euros-092802524.html

 

[Napper]

I stand corrected. I misread an interview with Chastain.

Did not think it was a leap of faith really - we all know that FIFA is a pretty flawed organisation. If some Saudi-Russian-Yank TV maestro would have said "if I see anything resembling boobs on TV - I'm not buying the rights to your tournament", it wouldn't really surprise me. But indeed you're right.

Still, I read a book a couple of years ago about Chastains celebration, how it was percieved from various media outlets etc. and about how it was reported and analysed at the time and while she actually had no idea behind it, it turned out political in the end, not least because a huge part of the media made it all about the body & boobs rather than the goal. I really think Chloe Kelly had Chastians legendary moment and her own political motivations behind it, as everyone could see it was 100% planned.

its all media nonsense anyway. Most women will admire the physique of a male player when they take top off. Same as blokes do to the women.

Thats it

 

[British Bulldog]

I heard her say the reason she took her shirt of was to replicate Bobby Zamora’s play off final goal celebration for QPR -
She is big QPR fan and it was that BZ moment that help inspire her to do well in the game

She said it on stage at Trafalger Square, she told her Mum there was going to be a Bobby Zamora moment and it was going to be her.

 

[dsr-burnley]

It wasn’t a show for femininity. She did it as a tribute to Brandi Chastain.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/chloe-kelly-football-brandi-chastain-sports-bra-euros-092802524.html

I dare say. But whatever the reason, it meant she had to play the last 10 minutes making allowances for having been booked and (because you can never be certain not to be booked again) she risked leaving her team mates a player short.

Taking shirts off for whatever reason is sheer self-indulgence and the total antithesis of what a team game should be about. She should have waited until full time, which incidentally is when Chastain did hers anyway.