Woeful season, but potentially invaluable lessons learned for the future?

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Ticket prices are frozen or reduced this season.
He never says "we will" get in the top 6. He says he's stumped up the cash for a squad "who could".
We do invest as much as other many other clubs(without parachute payments). Certainly more than our position in league would indicate.

Tony Bloom, Nov 12, 2014:

"What we are trying to do is to have a squad of players which has the ability to get promoted from the Championship every season,"
"In the last two seasons we have had that squad and got to the play-offs and got very close. I believe we have got it this season."

 

[B.W.]

To follow the albion for 40 years then probably the latter.

LoL! It just seems to me that you always play a straight 'tow the company line' bat whenever somebody points out the club's oh so obvious failings. Do you accept, for example, that:

1. The recruitment team under Burke failed to act quickly enough, and the signings they belatedly made lacked quality?
2. Tony & Paul hired the wrong manager in SH, proudly announcing how great the selection process was and SH was, then took far too long to sack him?
3. That Tony said we would have a top 6 squad come end of Aug, and we didn't?
4. Do you agree lessons need to be learnt by our beloved leaders?

The first 3 things I pointed out at the relevant times, e.g. poor and belated recruitment in the summer. You and others defended the club at the time. Do you now accept you were wrong?

 

[jimbob5]

We don't have a great history of leaning from mistakes

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

So are your proposing that TB should pump/sink (sorry, "properly invest") more money into players and football costs on the basis that the current business plan, under which football costs totalled 86% of the club's £24m turnover last season and TB stumped up £10.6m, is seriously flawed? If so, how much annually and for how long?

Until he either realises that he has to properly finance the footballing side of things by paying market rates or he hands over the reins to someone who will. As things currently stand and look like remaining for the foreseeable, the story of the Albion's recent years will record that Dick Knight delivered the planning permission, Tony Bloom delivered the infrastructure and the next chairman will deliver the players to take the club to the next level. No shame in that whatsoever, each chairman has played their crucial part, it's just natural evolution.

 

[Adders1]

Just my observations - had a few beers tonight, so forgive me as I know **** all about managing a professional football club.

My main concern is TB's stagnating lack of ambition - and this is not a dig at his financial investment, more the 'structure' put in place. When he took over from Knight and appointed Poyet and there was a sense of optimism around Brighton - Gus got us playing attractive football, got some exciting players in, obviously, not all worked out, but at least we had more skillful players who had grown up watching the manager and respected his opinions about the way football should played.

I don't recall Garcia or Hyppia being given the green light to make phone calls to players like Vicente, Calderon, Buckley, Bridcutt etc up and persuade them to sign - once the 'structure' came into play, seems the TB's approach to transfers became 1) a lot less personal and 2) more like a democratic decision amongst people who had never played the game at any level.

Obviously Poyet made some ego driven mistakes, but I would prefer a manager who has at least strong opinions about the type of football he wants to play, and the players he needs to achieve that. For the last 2 seasons we have had nothing but yes men - I can't fathom how a decent, experienced manager would want to come to the Albion after being told that most of the transfers in the pre-season have been done for him. An absolutely ludicrous decision from a playing point of view, but understand it from a financial point of view. We need a manager who is going to get the best out of the squad he is allowed to build, I just don;t have any confidence that Hughton is going to be given that opportunity - like SH and OG, seems like he's just happy to maintain a regular income.

 

[Martlet]

Just my observations - had a few beers tonight, so forgive me as I know **** all about managing a professional football club.

My main concern is TB's stagnating lack of ambition - and this is not a dig at his financial investment, more the 'structure' put in place. When he took over from Knight and appointed Poyet and there was a sense of optimism around Brighton - Gus got us playing attractive football, got some exciting players in, obviously, not all worked out, but at least we had more skillful players who had grown up watching the manager and respected his opinions about the way football should played.

I don't recall Garcia or Hyppia being given the green light to make phone calls to players like Vicente, Calderon, Buckley, Bridcutt etc up and persuade them to sign - once the 'structure' came into play, seems the TB's approach to transfers became 1) a lot less personal and 2) more like a democratic decision amongst people who had never played the game at any level.

Obviously Poyet made some ego driven mistakes, but I would prefer a manager who has at least strong opinions about the type of football he wants to play, and the players he needs to achieve that. For the last 2 seasons we have had nothing but yes men - I can't fathom how a decent, experienced manager would want to come to the Albion after being told that most of the transfers in the pre-season have been done for him. An absolutely ludicrous decision from a playing point of view, but understand it from a financial point of view. We need a manager who is going to get the best out of the squad he is allowed to build, I just don;t have any confidence that Hughton is going to be given that opportunity - like SH and OG, seems like he's just happy to maintain a regular income.

There's some good points there - but I suspect the truth is a little different. Poyet was Tony's man after all - and it seems to me he tried to emulate what he achieved when he appointed both Oscar and Sami. Oscar was a proven coach who did a pretty decent job, but resigned because he felt his hands were tied in the role. Sami, well Sami doesn't need discussing.

I think what changed was the realisation how badly wrong we were going financially with Poyet on board and Dick's operating structure at the Amex, especially with FFP on the horizon, and this in turn led to Barber's and Burke's appointment - and an attempt to prise decision making from the manager's hands. I can see why they did it, but it clearly went too far, ripping the heart out of the team in the process. Personally I don't think Barber's done a bad job - he's got us back on an even keel after all - but Burke clearly didn't have what it took, and Sami didn't stand a chance (and wouldn't have, even with Guardiola's man-management skills).

So where does that leave us? somewhere in the middle-ground I suspect, with an experienced manager who will look to bring his own people in, but a more mature structure around the business. I'm quietly confident they will get things right this year. At least we don't need to replace a manager over the summer again....

 

[Knotty]

Until he either realises that he has to properly finance the footballing side of things by paying market rates or he hands over the reins to someone who will. As things currently stand and look like remaining for the foreseeable, the story of the Albion's recent years will record that Dick Knight delivered the planning permission, Tony Bloom delivered the infrastructure and the next chairman will deliver the players to take the club to the next level. No shame in that whatsoever, each chairman has played their crucial part, it's just natural evolution.

It's all so simple isn't it?

The club identifies the quality players it needs, we offer to pay the transfer fees and wages that they and their agents demand - the 'market rate'. If other clubs offer more than the 'market rate', we outbid them and we keep doing so until we get our man, regardless of what level the fee and wages have risen to during negotiation. (It's taken a read that every player will prefer to come to us than to any other club.)

If our current chairman can't afford to operate in this way then he should give way to someone, who is presumably waiting in the wings, who will buy the club at a 'market price', repays Tony for all he has put into it, and is happy to continually fund the transfer fees and wages of players for whom we will outbid all other clubs.

The new chairman will, of course, be so wealthy that he will pour in whatever money is needed, and will not have to bother about FFP or, indeed, any normal business and financial common sense.

 

[chaileyjem]

The first 3 things I pointed out at the relevant times, e.g. poor and belated recruitment in the summer. You and others defended the club at the time. Do you now accept you were wrong?

Yes.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It's all so simple isn't it?

The club identifies the quality players it needs, we offer to pay the transfer fees and wages that they and their agents demand - the 'market rate'. If other clubs offer more than the 'market rate', we outbid them and we keep doing so until we get our man, regardless of what level the fee and wages have risen to during negotiation. (It's taken a read that every player will prefer to come to us than to any other club.)

If our current chairman can't afford to operate in this way then he should give way to someone, who is presumably waiting in the wings, who will buy the club at a 'market price', repays Tony for all he has put into it, and is happy to continually fund the transfer fees and wages of players for whom we will outbid all other clubs.

The new chairman will, of course, be so wealthy that he will pour in whatever money is needed, and will not have to bother about FFP or, indeed, any normal business and financial common sense.

While we're being seriously trounced in the table and knock-on financial implications by the likes of Bournemouth and even f*cking BRENTFORD then there are serious lessons to be learned by the Albion board. The board need to either follow those clubs business models or something similar or continue trying to do things on the cheap until the one season they misjudge and find themselves dumped unceremoniously on their collective arses into League One. Same as we just avoided this season.

 

[Knotty]

While we're being seriously trounced in the table and knock-on financial implications by the likes of Bournemouth and even f*cking BRENTFORD then there are serious lessons to be learned by the Albion board. The board need to either follow those clubs business models or something similar or continue trying to do things on the cheap until the one season they misjudge and find themselves dumped unceremoniously on their collective arses into League One. Same as we just avoided this season.

So is Bournemouth's business model based on paying as much as it takes to get quality players in, regardless of how much that amounts to?

And what if every club in the division were able to follow that sort of business model ... someone will still finish 26th! What do you say to the chairman of that club? "Your business model was right but you were just unlucky!"

We all want to see better players and better football but it really isn't as simple as you make out. You make the comment that the club could "continue trying to do things on the cheap until the one season they misjudge." I'd say that a worse scenario would be throwing money at it until one season they misjudge. I would be far more critical of the club if they spent massively more than was prudent and got us into a mess that way. And even if we do 'spend, spend, spend, we and many clubs better than us know that you can spend a huge amount of money on a player who turns out to be a failure.

It seems your solution is to simply get another chairman in...where is that person?

We who know next to nothing of the club's and Tony's finances can always make spending decisions very easily. If the club took the advice of some on NSC, we'd have a new chairman every three years, a new manager every three months and a new goalkeeper every three weeks!

 

[GT49er]

So is Bournemouth's business model based on paying as much as it takes to get quality players in, regardless of how much that amounts to?

And what if every club in the division were able to follow that sort of business model ... someone will still finish 26th! What do you say to the chairman of that club? "Your business model was right but you were just unlucky!"

We all want to see better players and better football but it really isn't as simple as you make out. You make the comment that the club could "continue trying to do things on the cheap until the one season they misjudge." I'd say that a worse scenario would be throwing money at it until one season they misjudge. I would be far more critical of the club if they spent massively more than was prudent and got us into a mess that way. And even if we do 'spend, spend, spend, we and many clubs better than us know that you can spend a huge amount of money on a player who turns out to be a failure.

It seems your solution is to simply get another chairman in...where is that person?

We who know next to nothing of the club's and Tony's finances can always make spending decisions very easily. If the club took the advice of some on NSC, we'd have a new chairman every three years, a new manager every three months and a new goalkeeper every three weeks!

Finishing 26th. would be the mother of all unluckiness!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

So is Bournemouth's business model based on paying as much as it takes to get quality players in, regardless of how much that amounts to?

And what if every club in the division were able to follow that sort of business model ... someone will still finish 26th! What do you say to the chairman of that club? "Your business model was right but you were just unlucky!"

We all want to see better players and better football but it really isn't as simple as you make out. You make the comment that the club could "continue trying to do things on the cheap until the one season they misjudge." I'd say that a worse scenario would be throwing money at it until one season they misjudge. I would be far more critical of the club if they spent massively more than was prudent and got us into a mess that way. And even if we do 'spend, spend, spend, we and many clubs better than us know that you can spend a huge amount of money on a player who turns out to be a failure.

It seems your solution is to simply get another chairman in...where is that person?

We who know next to nothing of the club's and Tony's finances can always make spending decisions very easily. If the club took the advice of some on NSC, we'd have a new chairman every three years, a new manager every three months and a new goalkeeper every three weeks!

I'll ask the question again, for the benefit of the hard-of-thinking: Does TB properly finance the footballing side of things by paying market rates or does he hand over the reins to someone who will? Either way, promotion to the Premier League gravy train is the only way he's ever going to get any kind of meaningful return on his investment.

 

[jimbob5]

I'll ask the question again, for the benefit of the hard-of-thinking: Does TB properly finance the footballing side of things by paying market rates or does he hand over the reins to someone who will? Either way, promotion to the Premier League gravy train is the only way he's ever going to get any kind of meaningful return on his investment.

Yep The same old ego trap, I'm afraid. Watch that money flow like water running down the plug hole. Then you guys get to thinking some rich Oligarch will come riding into town with rescue money
Don't always work that way. Face it. We never learn and now it's time for one big mother of a reality check! Suck on THAT guys!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Yep The same old ego trap, I'm afraid. Watch that money flow like water running down the plug hole. Then you guys get to thinking some rich Oligarch will come riding into town with rescue money
Don't always work that way. Face it. We never learn and now it's time for one big mother of a reality check! Suck on THAT guys!

Er, right, OK, can we put you down as a "Don't Know" then?

 

[chaileyjem]

Do you accept, for example, that:

1. The recruitment team under Burke failed to act quickly enough, and the signings they belatedly made lacked quality?
2. Tony & Paul hired the wrong manager in SH, proudly announcing how great the selection process was and SH was, then took far too long to sack him?
3. That Tony said we would have a top 6 squad come end of Aug, and we didn't?
4. Do you agree lessons need to be learnt by our beloved leaders?

?

PS don't need to ask me anyway as club in form of Barber and Bloom have already effectively said yes to 1) , will skirt around 2) presumably for contractual reasons but given we've avoided relegation now then it's a moot point, and bleeding obvious that 3) "a squad that could compete for the top 6" wasn't delivered and 4) have done several interviews already with no doubt more planned post Boro agreeing and accepting responsibility for the disappointment of last 9 months. Club /board don't exactly hide away from fans or difficult questions like this.

Albion Roar, Argus, bbc sussex, club YouTube channel etc.

 

[jimbob5]

Er, right, OK, can we put you down as a "Don't Know" then?

It's always his call. Face it, though he was born with a good hand he still had to gamble to get where he got to. Thing is, he still a gambler and gamblers rely on fate. He won't relinquish control. He's the main man. Take the clash with Poyet. Together they were Bacharach and David. Apart they are Bach Ache and David Mellor.
Both of them thought they could individually find that Holy Grail. Like I say, it takes team work Sam. It's biological!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Thing is, he still a gambler and gamblers rely on fate.

The good ones don't.

I'll have what you're ingesting

 

[jimbob5]

The good ones don't.

I'll have what you're ingesting

They must do or they would not be gamblers. That's not to say he won't know when to fold. The thing is, he's not likely to give much warning and if the likes of Leeds, etc can't get decent buyers why should we.
There you go. Sniff on that brother!

 

[jimbob5]

Er, right, OK, can we put you down as a "Don't Know" then?

OK then