[Misc] Will we have another lockdown ?

[crodonilson]

Definitely further restrictions, we are in for a very, very difficult winter, the speed (or lack of with this government) and scope of the restrictions imposed will ultimately decide whether a total lockdown is needed. If we quickly and forcefully impose restrictions hopefully we can get on top of cases and hospitalisations before we are forced into a full lockdown and the NHS is put under unsustainable pressure.

 

[southstandandy]

Suspect early doors footy grounds will be ok, then come autumn if the rates continue to spread then gates will be restricted again and other such events as indoor concerts and nightclubs could be forced to close again for a period of time.

I hope not, but personally I think it's highly likely.

 

[larus]

The problem with that stance is that the vaccines are not 100% effective, especially for those in vulnerable demographics. Your choice is yours to make, as you say - but make it being aware that your choice could kill someone else if you are unlucky enough to a) catch Covid, and b) encounter and pass it on to one of those vulnerable people. Also do it in the full awareness that you might be contributing towards allowing the virus to mutate further and in doing so escape the vaccine.

Your choice, sure. Just make it fully informed, and don't make it for selfish reasons. Not having the vaccine might be the right choice for you personally, but it could be a very bad one for society. If you aren't going to get vaccinated, at least do what you can to minimise the risk for others: where a mask in public indoor places, and keep your distance from others.

Full disclosure: my family and I are now (as far as we can) shielding. That's because my wife is on immune-suppression treatment for the next few months. It puts her in the highly vulnerable category despite having already had both vaccine doses.

It’s not for selfish reasons - I choose not to take drugs/medicines where possible. I believe the immune system we have is powerful against most infections (of course not everything), but the problem is that so many people have such a bad lifestyle that their immune system is weakened. look at the junk which most people view as food - jeez. These are the people that expect to go the the doctors and ‘made well’.

I am sorry that you have reasons for needing the shield and I appreciate your courtesy in your replies, as it could be easy to take offence to my view under such circumstances. I also have a friend who needs to be careful with a compromised immune system, and I would wear a mask around him. But, for the relatively small percentage of people who are like this, they should be taking their own precautions (as you obviously are).

I believe that society has now got to the position where it expects life to be risk free. It’s not and never has been. This pandemic in comparison to the 1918 Spanish flu is fairly minor.

 

[larus]

You clearly do have an agenda , you want to live your life as you want. So what do you do about speed limits or seat belt laws which are imposed by 'other people' . We live in a society where we all (should) confirm to acceptable behaviours for the benefit of the whole of society the alternative is anarchy i.e. we all go out and not follow the rules that we don't like. It's pretty clear that even with the Delta variant people will die, people will have Long Covid and a lot of pressure will be put on the NHS and so other Hospital treatments will stop again causing more deaths. This can be reduced if more people (all people) have the jabs. It does not eliminate COVID , it might not cope with the next variant but currently it is one of the best ways to reduce it along with masks, good hand washing and appropriate social distancing.

The state already has control over your mind and body because it sets the laws.

If you want to compare seat-belt laws with injecting stuff into someone’s body, then anything else you say is irrelevant. Words fail me.

 

[Creaky]

The problem with vaccine passports is that some people can’t take the vaccine. Therefore, are you saying that those people should be banned from flying?

With all these things, it’s not a simple black/white answer.

Vaccine passports would be a bad step on the road the a very sinister way of controlling people. The UK has always been a liberal society (in terms of our rights - common law assumes you can do something unless it’s illegal). Once we go down this path, be wary as to where it leads. A lot of politicians like the power/control (Matt Handcock being a good example), yet the rules don’t apply to them.

I believe in freedom/choice for the individual. Although I said about drugs earlier (in terms of lifestyle choices), I would, for example, actually legalise drugs (even though I’ve never used them) as I think it’s personal choice.
Only make something criminal/restricted if it clearly endangers/harms others. Not getting a covid vaccine is not in that category.

I’m not for one minute suggesting that vaccine passport use should be legally enforceable.

My point is that organisations, companies and individuals have as much right to insist on proof of vaccination to allow use of their facilities as you have to decide not to be vaccinated.

As you rightly say, under Common Law the assumption is that any action is lawful unless it has been specifically legislated against.

 

[el punal]

To be fair I don't think Boris ever said there won't be another one , what is astounding is that as numbers rise rapidly the doors are being opened wider to facilitate the spread. Yes deaths are at a lower level but hospitalisations are increasing at a rapid rate and so are the predictions regards long Covid.

But are the hospitalisations down to patients who have not had/refused the vaccine? The number of cases being reported of people admitted to hospital with Covid who regret not taking the virus seriously and have therefore not been vaccinated is quite staggering.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Definitely. I expect most of the world to shut its borders to the UK as well.

 

[theboybilly]

Probably.

Looking very possible that the NHS will be overwhelmed sometime in September.

As always, lockdown will be imposed too late and lifted too early.

The NHS has never been overwhelmed so why would it be the case now?

 

[Richy_Seagull]

The NHS has never been overwhelmed so why would it be the case now?

People were getting treated in queuing ambulances in the winter as they scrambled to find beds.

 

[Wardy's twin]

But are the hospitalisations down to patients who have not had/refused the vaccine? The number of cases being reported of people admitted to hospital with Covid who regret not taking the virus seriously and have therefore not been vaccinated is quite staggering.

I don't know but that clearly doesn't help the situation and in my opinion there shouldn't be a choice (unless other medical reason exist) . I don't see COVID any different to other contagious diseases which we have dealt with by full vaccination programmes e.g. TB has been greatly reduced (and yes improvement in living conditions helps).

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Definitely. I expect most of the world to shut its borders to the UK as well.

I wouldn’t be surprised. Holland as well as they are the template we are following.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Definitely. I expect most of the world to shut its borders to the UK as well.

Unlikely.

Double jabbed yes, shut completely, no.

I think we/world will move towards removing testing as an entry option as well.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

If you want to compare seat-belt laws with injecting stuff into someone’s body, then anything else you say is irrelevant. Words fail me.

I think you should check out the Return of Fans thread. Anti vaxxers now have more important things to worry about than lockdowns…

 

[dsr-burnley]

That's all well and good but the other side of the coin was that not that long ago, we had anti lockdown sympathisers wanted to open earlier and suggesting we should 'shield' the vulnerable. Of course, by shield they pretty much meant keep them in permanent lockdown!!.

That's pure invention. The theory behind opening up is that this virus is so virulent that its spread is inevitable, so let's get it over with now and in the meantime the especially vulnerable can shield and dodge it. You might not like the logic, but that's what the logic is - so argue against that rather than making something up.

If this theory is correct then the vulnerable will be able to come out again after the wave is over. And the corollary is that (again, if this theory is correct) that by locking down now for everyone, and suppressing the virus, then we are only delaying its spread because sooner or later we will release again and out comes the virus again. Elimination is not (unfortunately) an option.

Whether we have another lockdown depends on the PM. And as he changes his mind every five minutes, then sooner or later he is bound to go for another lockdown.

 

[Wardy's twin]

The NHS has never been overwhelmed so why would it be the case now?

Whilst it has 'never been overwhelmed' as a whole certain hospitals were declared 'full'. But this 'measure' only applies to taking in of COVID cases not the huge backlogs in that have come about as a result that resources were devoted to it and diverted to many key areas.

 

[Napper]

People were getting treated in queuing ambulances in the winter as they scrambled to find beds.

No they wernt and dangerous propaganda which some media peddled

The nhs was never over whelmed

The nightingales barely got used at all

Another lockdown - don’t think so as vaccines working . Possible knee jerk reactions to cases but hopefully sense will prevail looking at hospitals and deaths



*** as a side note - hospitals in winter are normally full . Look beyond the propaganda !

 

[larus]

I’m not for one minute suggesting that vaccine passport use should be legally enforceable.

My point is that organisations, companies and individuals have as much right to insist on proof of vaccination to allow use of their facilities as you have to decide not to be vaccinated.

As you rightly say, under Common Law the assumption is that any action is lawful unless it has been specifically legislated against.

This will be very difficult to enforce legally (I know that currently a lot of people are in the camp of supporting vaccines/controls). However, when someone who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons is banned from flying (for example), that will cause an outcry.

Also, as the level of deaths stay low (which IMO they will as a lot of the vulnerable people will unfortunately have already died), then the headlines will gradually change and we'll get back to normal. We get bad flu seasons and those at higher risk die at higher rates. That's not being heatless - it's just a fact of life. As people get older, they are more at risk of infection.

Eventually, Covid will just be another disease we learn to live with like flu.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's inevitable they'll be another lockdown.
It'll be whether some of the UK population will follow the advice given out by Chris Witty etc....
Mask wearing has become an artwork these days, whether it's hanging from your ears, chins, or even interior car mirror, by those fvckwits who haven't a clue.

Listening to people being interviewed on the radio today: 'Brilliant, back to normal!'. I was out in town earlier. It was very sparsely populated - no market and over 30 degrees, but I didn't see a single mask wearer apart from me.

I'd be interested to read reports from people travelling on trains or the tube today.

 

[Sheebo]

Ffs where’s the option for no with (Boris is a ****) after it?

 

[Sheebo]

As long as death rates and hospitalisations are still minimal as they are now (sick to even write this but guess we’ve all had to be a bit thick skinned on it) there’s no need to really. It’ll come in waves with the cases, but the vaccine is clearly working against serious illness in the main. Hopefully they develop another form of the vaccine to protect against other strains or be even more affective with the death rates.