[Misc] Will the Unions bring everyone to their knees?

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Not seen it reported in the press but speaking to an Ex colleague even staff at the FCA are currently on strike due to removal of bonuses (apart from the top), moved salary bands and reduced pensions

It could be said that a less effective (if you can call it that) regulator will benefit a few


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[clapham_gull]

Well, I am surprised to see no thread regarding the RMT screwing up the country when everyone is trying hard to work a plan going forward.

Just because they feel hard done by.

Does anyone feel sorry for these guys who appear to be playing politics because they smell blood?

How many people who have been on the edge of bankruptcy because of covid, will now topple off the cliff because of more loss of income?

Just what the country didn't want.

How many other vulture Unions will follow this country destroying route?

Is it time for the worker to make a stand against their union?

You've clearly lived a very sheltered life, so it's only fair it's explained.

Unions will not only ballot their members on what action to take, but before that there will numerous discussions with members before you even get there.

When you say "unions" who really mean is employees because that's what a "union" is. Collectively (the employees) elect a leader to push forward and negotiate their demands.

Someone brave enough to take the flack and abuse because that's what they are paid to do.

On that subject they are paid out the employees wages and if they didn't think they were worth it. they'd vote them out or leave the union.

I've just voted yes to pay and conditions offered by my employee based on advice from my union. I could equally have voted no. They don't effect me personally, but I've paid my subs to ensure those on low wages get a bit of a pay rise. But that's what being a member is all about.

I'm also decided not to strike in the past, when collectively most members voted to.

It's incredibly democratic being a member of a union, a level of democracy that clearly you've never experienced.

There is power in a union, but it's no different from the power afforded to organisations such the CBI and the numerous entities that have the ear of the Government via lobbying.

You either decide to be powerless or organised. It's clear what path you have taken, but that is your democratic choice.

 

[Weststander]

This wave of global inflation was always going to come. Service economies and FIAT currencies. No intrinsic value in the money and no intrinsic value in the production (obviously with exceptions)... unsustainable from the get go and only upheld by growth, and since 2008 that growth has mainly been a result of foreign (Chinese in particular) investment. Just look at the increase in Chinese spending when the financial crisis began... which eventually bailed us out in Europe/US, but the underlying issues were never really dealt with and we were always just one cataclysmic event (like some pandemic or a war involving states with significant impact on our economies) from a very difficult situation.

I don't think anyone knows how we're going to deal with this because there is no end in sight. Never in the last few hundred years has there been fewer tools to deal with a situation like this - the interest rates are sensitive to touch in any direction, regulation of the financial markets has been thrown out the window, our countries are not anywhere near self-sustaining, there's no production to adjust because we're quickly approaching the point where fuel, food, heating etc. will be the real issues and no increase in cool IT services, tourism or other service shit is going to solve it.

People are desperate. That's why they are going on strikes - not because they are greedy or anything like that. Imo that should be fairly obvious to anyone, and it should be fairly obvious to anyone that this is not the time to moan about these desperate people not being able to provide them with their holidays or their train rides to football games. But from reading multiple threads here it seems that anti-unionism is almost as strong over there as in Yankeetown. Slightly disappointing. As someone raised in socialist Sweden, a large part of the anglophilia over here revolves around the culture, solidarity and fighting spirit of your working class. Turns out this may all be a myth, or the past.

Just shows, don’t always listen to economists. Looking up articles in the last hour, some as late as Nov 2021 were stating “Why inflation is in the past”.

The UK …. here’s my summary:

Crippled by the colossal debts of two world wars and not given a nice blank cheque from the Yanks likely Germany to rebuild, the UK was in a relative economic decline. Italy was a country where the southern half was in centuries old poverty, yet they rose and overtook the UK GDP in 1987, celebrating that as Il Sorpasso for a very long time. The UK had been stuck in an eternal impasse of:
Useless senior management.
A lack of investment by major companies.
Intransigent, politicised trade unions, dogmatic working practices such as very rigid job demarkation. Only one person could heat the rivets, another pass them, another fit them. In the 60’s and 70’s we were the strike capital of the world. Nothing to be proud of. Whilst the Germans, Finns, Italians, Japanese and Swedes marched in with superior goods that didn’t rust or break.

It was never a David and Goliath story of 90% left wing workers versus toffs. It’s always been polarised, many working and middle class folk who would never vote Labour. The major reason is possibly taxation. Brits don’t like paying it. Left wingers think only the rich and businesses should pay for a welfare state, teachers pay rises and the NHS. A vast number of the rest look for minimal income tax and national insurance, there’s an age old funny obsession with what the Chancellor of the Exchequer can give them on budget day.

Before you were on nsc, I used to point out using Swedish net pay calculators, that even Swedes earnings say 375,000kr (£30,000) pay a huge proportion of their wages on national and local taxes to finance the welfare state. Almost everyone contributes in a huge way financially, not just industrialists, lawyers and pop stars.

In the UK no one it seems wants to truly head towards your system.

 

[Triggaaar]

Same. However, I’m not in a position to demand the government act honourably.

Indeed, and that's the same for most people. I do of course understand that people who have trained for public sector work often can't just leave and work for a competitor, so the government do need more 'encouragement' to pay fair wages. I don't have a solution for getting the balance right - making the government (ie, taxpayers) pay what's fair, without employees having enough power to get more than what's fair. Which industries have the most strike power seems quite arbitrary.

If I demanded similar of my boss, he’d simply replace me.

Come now, don't be coy with us. I'm sure you're quite irreplaceable.

 

[Triggaaar]

I know it's not just you, but that doesn't constitute a pay rise. It merely maintains the level of pay with the rise in the cost of living.

Oh I'm well aware of that - to compare like with like, most of us are getting a pay cut. But that's what we should expect isn't it (to some extent at least), following Covid and now the war? Should everyone really expect their salary to keep up with inflation right now? That's simply not possible.

 

[Triggaaar]

I didn’t for nearly 3 years, but changed job last month and got a double digit% pay rise (+ ‘welcome’ bonus of a months pay)

Far too many people stick around in jobs when moving would earn them a pay rise.

And as I said above, I do appreciate that changing jobs is not so easy for many public sector employees.

 

[The Clamp]

Indeed, and that's the same for most people. I do of course understand that people who have trained for public sector work often can't just leave and work for a competitor, so the government do need more 'encouragement' to pay fair wages. I don't have a solution for getting the balance right - making the government (ie, taxpayers) pay what's fair, without employees having enough power to get more than what's fair. Which industries have the most strike power seems quite arbitrary.

Come now, don't be coy with us. I'm sure you're quite irreplaceable.

Ha! I wouldn’t be surprised if I came to work one night and there was a little chimpanzee wearing my ID sitting at my desk

 

[rogersix]

giving money directly... so we're on handouts now? bit leap.

what do you think the mid and higher earners do with their money? all those cars, building work, holidays, iphones etc just appear do they? they dont go to the supermarket, hairdressers, pubs or restaurants? where is this absurd notion that only one group of people spend their money coming from?

Ahem. That's trickle down economics, something that you said a moment ago is a myth invented by those who oppose it.

you have been DESTROYED!

 

[Triggaaar]

I think that your assessment is fair economically, but after the last 12 years, how much longer do we expect NHS, Care Workers, Teachers and others to try and live on seriously diminishing incomes (nearly 10% pa currently) with increasing documented cases of reliance of foodbanks, charity etc ?

The pay offers workers in those industries have been getting is offensive, they should have been getting much more. There needs to be a balance between fair increases (in line with the private sector) and rising inflation.

As I'm sure you know, I believe this has been coming for the last few years, increasingly so since this Government came to power. I don't have the answers anymore, but there is not the slightest sign of a change in direction of the economic disaster that is fast approaching

Yeah we are in a pickle. Our self serving government probably don't even care about getting us out of it. That said, I have no confidence we'd have been in a better position if comrade Jezza had won.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Poor old Mick Lynch being slaughtered on Question Time.

 

[rogersix]

its just basic economics, money circulates, from Alice to Bob to Eve, regardless if they earn 50k, 10k or 31.2k. some companies get involved along the way, employ people to make things, provide service, pay some executives and shareholders, who buy things and so on. the notion of trickle-down economics was about tax cuts, not stated as a formal economic theory and been re-appropriated in various meme like forms.


now thats getting into a lot more nuance. someone on lower income might spend greater proportion of income, assuming some level of saving which many dont, the mid and higher earner is still be spending more. Alice has 31k after tax and savings, Bob has 10k, Eve has 20k. who do you reckon spends the most money?

if the three all earned a similar amount, they would all spend and save vaguely the same amount.

what's your point?

 

[portlock seagull]

Poor old Mick Lynch being slaughtered on Question Time.

By a wealthy middle class audience that doesn’t know the half of it, yet they’re all better placed experts to discuss Railways than he is. Also, lots of very ‘poppy eyes’ types tonight, is Stratford Upon Avon twinned with Norfolk?

 

[jackalbion]

Poor old Mick Lynch being slaughtered on Question Time.

By genuinely one of the most ignorant audiences I’ve ever seen. Complete lack of knowledge on anything related to the railways.

 

[beorhthelm]

if the three all earned a similar amount, they would all spend and save vaguely the same amount.

what's your point?

yes, they'd all spend the same. thats not reality though, different jobs have different pay. my point was illustrating that money flows round and whoevers hands it passes though its still being spent somewhere, which isnt trickle down, though is misrepresented as such. we should definatly have economics taught at school so people understand the basics and dont fall for these silly ideas.

 

[Hugo Rune]

By genuinely one of the most ignorant audiences I’ve ever seen. Complete lack of knowledge on anything related to the railways.

No.

Grow up and learn some history Jack.

Thatcher + Scargill = destruction of British industry.

Johnson + Lynch = collapse of the railways.

Idiots like Corbyn and Lynch empower the worst people in our Country like Johnson. He needs these left wing dinosaurs in order to wield power and Lynch has played a blinder for Johnson tonight.

 

[Weststander]

By a wealthy middle class audience that doesn’t know the half of it, yet they’re all better placed experts to discuss Railways than he is. Also, lots of very ‘poppy eyes’ types tonight, is Stratford Upon Avon twinned with Norfolk?

QT audiences have really changed over the years.

In the 80’s and 90’s it was a guaranteed anti-Tory rent a mob. The producers admitted they couldn’t prevent applicants lying about their politics, preventing a representative mix.

Lynch seemed uncharacteristically subdued. A PR exercise to give a more touchy-feely image, or uncomfortable dealing with opponents?

The Welsh Labour guy kept talking about how everything was marvellous in Wales, ending each overly long monologue with a crescendo. Trying to get a rip-roaring crowd reaction and failing.

 

[portlock seagull]

By genuinely one of the most ignorant audiences I’ve ever seen. Complete lack of knowledge on anything related to the railways.

What amuses me is I wonder if any of them have been on a train - how exactly is it affecting them in their Discoveries & Land Rovers?!

 

[LamieRobertson]

Got quite hot at one stage today….the weather that is

 

[portlock seagull]

QT audiences have really changed over the years.

In the 80’s and 90’s it was a guaranteed anti-Tory rent a mob. The producers admitted they couldn’t prevent applicants lying about their politics, preventing a representative mix.

Lynch seemed uncharacteristically subdued. A PR exercise to give a more touchy-feely image, or uncomfortable dealing with opponents?

The Welsh Labour guy kept talking about how everything was marvellous in Wales, ending each overly long monologue with a crescendo. Trying to get a rip-roaring crowd reaction and failing.

The Welsh guy is a total tool, a right bingo (card) bore with his cliche “In Wales, Welsh trains running on Welsh tracks with Welsh drivers through Welsh Valleys, and nothing ever goes wrong…because they’re Welsh. And in Wales.”

FFS, just feck off Ivor the engine. Things have changed since Mr Jones only had to take Mrs Griffiths up the Rhonda.

 

[jackalbion]

No.

Grow up and learn some history Jack.

Thatcher + Scargill = destruction of British industry.

Johnson + Lynch = collapse of the railways.

Idiots like Corbyn and Lynch empower the worst people in our Country like Johnson. He needs these left wing dinosaurs in order to wield power and Lynch has played a blinder for Johnson tonight.

The collapse of the railways has everything to do with Boris Johnson and this government, I’m not going to pretend Mick Lynch is correct on everything. There is plenty of new technology being implemented in the rail, and the reason it isn’t is because of the failures of Network Rail and the DfT. I won’t go any further but you are talking complete crap. The Department of Transport is completely not fit for purpose. Mick Lynch on his points on safety are completely valid, so we want a repeat of Hatfield, Southall or Potters Bar. I see this as the final straw in what is being told to people on the frontline have been telling the power brokers in rail for years, and they aren’t implemented. It’s not as simple as being politics here, this government DO NOT negotiate, and they make dreadful policy decisions (see the 46 trains lying about collect dust all over the Southern network) solely on cost.