Will / should Hodgson resign if we go out in the Group phase?

[Finchley Seagull]

Thanks for that.

The fact that it has now run to 10 plus pages suggests it was a reasonable and valid topic for debate, both on here and on national media all day - unless you are some sort of ostrich. or grew up in the former Soviet Union.

The thread wasn't calling for Hodgson to go - it was asking if he would or should. Reasonable in the circumstances, I would have thought.

Before leaving for Brazil, Hodgson would have set the squad some short, medium and long term objectives. The short term objective would have been to qualify from the group. This they failed to do. Having failed in his immediate objective it wouldn't have been surprising if Hodgson himself decided to resign. But it seems you don't think this is something that should be talked about. Lucky you don't set the news agenda.

Looks like the idiot is, in fact, you.

In fairness, idiot was really harsh about your original post. I was pissed off after the match.

I don't have my head in the sand (as suggested by you and someone else in this thread). In fact I would say my view is the exact opposite. Since Bobby Robson left in 1990, we've struggled in International tournaments, except when hosting Euro 96. To me sticking your head in the sand is saying it's the manager's fault, getting rid of the manager and then assuming everything will improve with the new manager. This tends to happen with England and never works.

What should happen is an examination of what's wrong with football in this country and what we can do to improve (and I don't mean 'B' teams). Why it is that very few English players play overseas and the Premier League is dominated by overseas players. If those don't change, we won't get better and actually become a better team. Hodgson is not the problem and sacking him won't improve things. We need to give him time and, given what's happened in the last 30 years, I don't understand how anyone thinks sacking the manager will solve anything, hence my original annoyance at the thread. Valid question maybe but one I really hope will be answered by us keeping Hodgson and giving him more time to build a team.

 

[Igzilla]

Messi has 2 and plays for a much better side.

So we are throwing away the euro's

He barely played in 2006 and was influential in 2010. Rooney has had more opportunity to demonstrate his supposed world class, but has thus far declined to do so. Time to say thanks for the effort, but let someone else step up.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

He barely played in 2006 and was influential in 2010. Rooney has had more opportunity to demonstrate his supposed world class, but has thus far declined to do so. Time to say thanks for the effort, but let someone else step up.

Rooney wasn't fit in 2010

And there lies the problem, he isn't world class but is built up by the English fans and media that he is - more than likely just so they can knock him down.

He is our best striker, a goal and an assist from this World Cup back this up so why are we going to ditch him completely? Replace him With who? Lambert? Rodriguez?

 

[Bry Nylon]

In fairness, idiot was really harsh about your original post. I was pissed off after the match.

I don't have my head in the sand (as suggested by you and someone else in this thread). In fact I would say my view is the exact opposite. Since Bobby Robson left in 1990, we've struggled in International tournaments, except when hosting Euro 96. To me sticking your head in the sand is saying it's the manager's fault, getting rid of the manager and then assuming everything will improve with the new manager. This tends to happen with England and never works.

What should happen is an examination of what's wrong with football in this country and what we can do to improve (and I don't mean 'B' teams). Why it is that very few English players play overseas and the Premier League is dominated by overseas players. If those don't change, we won't get better and actually become a better team. Hodgson is not the problem and sacking him won't improve things. We need to give him time and, given what's happened in the last 30 years, I don't understand how anyone thinks sacking the manager will solve anything, hence my original annoyance at the thread. Valid question maybe but one I really hope will be answered by us keeping Hodgson and giving him more time to build a team.

Thanks for the response.

For what it is worth, I agree with all you have written 100%.

 

[Steve.S]

In fairness, idiot was really harsh about your original post. I was pissed off after the match.

I don't have my head in the sand (as suggested by you and someone else in this thread). In fact I would say my view is the exact opposite. Since Bobby Robson left in 1990, we've struggled in International tournaments, except when hosting Euro 96. To me sticking your head in the sand is saying it's the manager's fault, getting rid of the manager and then assuming everything will improve with the new manager. This tends to happen with England and never works.

What should happen is an examination of what's wrong with football in this country and what we can do to improve (and I don't mean 'B' teams). Why it is that very few English players play overseas and the Premier League is dominated by overseas players. If those don't change, we won't get better and actually become a better team. Hodgson is not the problem and sacking him won't improve things. We need to give him time and, given what's happened in the last 30 years, I don't understand how anyone thinks sacking the manager will solve anything, hence my original annoyance at the thread. Valid question maybe but one I really hope will be answered by us keeping Hodgson and giving him more time to build a team.

Total rubbish, Costa Rica the lowest ranked team in our group, are top. It's all down to tactics.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Thanks for the response.

For what it is worth, I agree with all you have written 100%.

Thanks. I do think we need a bit of perspective. Lets hope Hodgson stays and proves us both right.

 

[Simster]

Total rubbish, Costa Rica the lowest ranked team in our group, are top. It's all down to tactics.

Or whether our players are intelligent enough to carry out those tactics?

We have qualified for two major tournments under Hodgson, with a mediocre defence, and with a mediocre forward line in the Euros of 2012. We have two years until the next one -lets hope we do exactly what France seem to have done after the shambles of their 2010 World Cup.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Total rubbish, Costa Rica the lowest ranked team in our group, are top. It's all down to tactics.

So the success of our national team has nothing to do with the number of foreign players in the Premier League and the lack of English players playing overseas, it's just down to tactics. I think it's pretty clear you're talking total rubbish. The whole sack the manager the minute we're out of the World Cup plan has worked really well in the past!

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Funny you should mention Mcclaren, because between him and Roy they have both failed compared to Sven and Capello both did a lot better, with both of them, we reached last 16/ quarter finals, which is where England should be. Sorry but we failed at this World Cup, because we are tactically inept on the big stage. Until we start to play like the other teams who slow the game down, play for fouls and encourage the ref to brandish a card, we will always be behind. Costa Rico made Italy look poor today and how did they do that, they hassled and rushed the play maker. I get fed up with people who assume because we do not have the best players, that Roy is doing a good job. That's rubbish, we just do not play to the oppositions weakness. I bet the Italians will not play a high line against Suarez and leave him on the shoulder of the last defender. After getting back in the game against the Italians and yesterday most teams would have shut up shop and played for the draw, its about getting points on the table and not always about winning.

Funny how you mention playing for a draw. Can you imagine the uproar if we'd done that when it looked like we'd got the upper hand yesterday?

The tactics bit I agree with but the teams who play that well have players who are used to it. I'm not sure we have the players with the technical ability to play that type of football and so it wouldn't work. That goes down to training at a young age and isn't something Hodgson can fix in the short term.

I agree about Sven. I think what we've done since he left shows what a good job he did. Capello I completely disagree. We had a much easier group last time and scraped through in second. I think we played much better against Italy than we did in the whole of the last World Cup and parts of yesterday too. We were a bit naïve at times defensively and lost. We will learn and move on. Personally, I didn't think we'd qualify from the group so I'm not going to shout for Hodgson's head. He did as well as he could with the players available (you can disagree but I genuinely don't think anyone would have done better) and will hopefully improve at the Euros in 2 years.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Switzerland?

And Finland

 

[Steve.S]

So the success of our national team has nothing to do with the number of foreign players in the Premier League and the lack of English players playing overseas, it's just down to tactics. I think it's pretty clear you're talking total rubbish. The whole sack the manager the minute we're out of the World Cup plan has worked really well in the past!

The last time we won the World Cup was in 66, so it got nothing to do with the amount of foreign players in our league. Going into this World Cup, we were ranked 10th in the world and Costa Rica 28th. Take a look at what teams the players play for. We have enough players who play for the top teams in the PL.
Costa Rica did a job against Italy today, why? So when we play Italy, are you saying that the problem is that they have less foreign players in their league? Then what's the excuse when Italy lose to Costa Rica. The truth is Costa Rica had better tactics against Italy, then we did. Spain went out this week, what's their excuse? Most of their team play in Spain. The truth is they lost not because they are not good enough, they lost because of poor tactics played by them, combined with better tactics by the opposition.

 

[Simster]

Then what's the excuse when Italy lose to Costa Rica. The truth is Costa Rica had better tactics against Italy, then we did.

Because Italy had been involved in a hard game in the jungle. They looked leggy in the second half and some of them looked like they were running through treacle.

Honestly, the two European sides got done up like a kipper by being drawn to play first up in Manaus.

 

[Steve.S]

Because Italy had been involved in a hard game in the jungle. They looked leggy in the second half and some of them looked like they were running through treacle.

Honestly, the two European sides got done up like a kipper by being drawn to play first up in Manaus.

Which is about tactics, our tempo was quick against Italy, again you have to ask why?. Both teams could have played at a slow tempo and got a draw. A lot of England's problems, are the media and its high expectations, its a mini league the first round and it's so important not to lose your first game and I believe we should have gone defensively. Once we lost, the pressure was always going to on to get a result in the next game. We lost a game to a hoof ball goal. Italy are still in the World Cup and a draw will see them go through.

 

[origigull]

It all boils down to lack of top notch experience in high quality football games (Champions League, Europa League and even last stages of Euros/WC). Not enough English players are playing in these comps. There are a lot of experienced foreign players over here as well as in their own countries where their managers can choose from. Hodgson hasn't got anyone from abroad to choose from, just over in the PL. Most foreign players over here can speak a little English and are not afraid to be here. English players don't want to play abroad because of the lingo or maybe earn less money. Until the top English teams play more English players in Europe they won't get the necessary big time experiences. The English players might be PL ready but most lack the experience of top class football. Hodgson hands are tied in who he picks. Bring on the youngsters and hope they get more top notch experience before the Euros in two years time.

 

[origigull]

Edit to above thread - Keep with Roy, there is no other alternative at the moment.

 

[Igzilla]

Rooney wasn't fit in 2010

And there lies the problem, he isn't world class but is built up by the English fans and media that he is - more than likely just so they can knock him down.

He is our best striker, a goal and an assist from this World Cup back this up so why are we going to ditch him completely? Replace him With who? Lambert? Rodriguez?

I'd certainly agree with you on the media angle, absolutely. Personally, I think a manager should have a philosophy and pick the players to fit, the old Alf Ramsey argument. Build a team, not a group of "top" players". I think Rooney's media status has elevated him to undroppable, despite his poor, big match end product. Would like to see a bit of balls in the team selection department, that's all.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The media are really sharpening the knives over Roy, regardless of what he, the FA, Gerrard and Rooney say about him staying on. The Daily Mail in particular are leading the charge, with influential Martin Samuel and media rottweiler Neil Ashton making the case for his immediate removal.

He could be in a lose- lose situation with this final game. Experiment and lose, and he's the worst England manager at World Cups. Experiment and win and he'll be accused of failing with the old guard.

Samuel is saying Roy should have picked Terry and Ashley Cole instead of Jagielka and Baines.

I fear for Roy now. There seems to be a perception the FA are too soft and Roy is too nice but just too "West Brom" to be any good at the highest level.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The media are really sharpening the knives over Roy, regardless of what he, the FA, Gerrard and Rooney say about him staying on. The Daily Mail in particular are leading the charge, with influential Martin Samuel and media rottweiler Neil Ashton making the case for his immediate removal.

He could be in a lose- lose situation with this final game. Experiment and lose, and he's the worst England manager at World Cups. Experiment and win and he'll be accused of failing with the old guard.

Samuel is saying Roy should have picked Terry and Ashley Cole instead of Jagielka and Baines.

I fear for Roy now. There seems to be a perception the FA are too soft and Roy is too nice but just too "West Brom" to be any good at the highest level.

The same people who said before the world cup they would rather go out having a go and playing younger players, I sometimes think the media forget what they say.

If I was Roy, Id leave - not worth the hassle.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

It all boils down to lack of top notch experience in high quality football games (Champions League, Europa League and even last stages of Euros/WC). Not enough English players are playing in these comps. There are a lot of experienced foreign players over here as well as in their own countries where their managers can choose from. Hodgson hasn't got anyone from abroad to choose from, just over in the PL. Most foreign players over here can speak a little English and are not afraid to be here. English players don't want to play abroad because of the lingo or maybe earn less money. Until the top English teams play more English players in Europe they won't get the necessary big time experiences. The English players might be PL ready but most lack the experience of top class football. Hodgson hands are tied in who he picks. Bring on the youngsters and hope they get more top notch experience before the Euros in two years time.

And what about countries such as Iran and Costa Rica, who have weaker players than us but are playing as a team?

 

[BensGrandad]

Based entirely on football knowledge and nous there is only 1 English man who should be the England Manager..........................Glenn Hoddle.