The tall one
Banned
- Jan 2, 2007
- 197
D day soon in the on going saga of Leeds and the 15 points.Anyone any idea if Leeds are likely to get the points back or not?.
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Will Leeds get their points back?
- Thread starter The tall one
- Start date
Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,075
I guess it has been about 12 hours since the last thread on this...
Finchley Seagull
Well-known member
If they win tonight I don't care. If they don't win tonight, then I hope not.
steward 433
Back and better
Friday 4pm is the expected end of the arbitration as been listening to talksport all day and they were banging on about it for half an hour zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
perth seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 5,487
Since we're pretty much out of playoff contention, it doesn't bother me that much any more. However, because I'm a spiteful git who dislikes Leeds, I'd prefer to see the points deduction remain as it would be very amusing to see them miss out on automatic promotion and then lose in the playoffs because of this.
Leeds could yet let WALSALL in via the trademans entrance, but only if the FA grow some TESTICLES and ensure that justice is done, ensuring that the Leeds penalty remains at 15 points.
So for that reason I hope they do. And I hope Huddersfield and Millwall do their jobs in the coming week...
So for that reason I hope they do. And I hope Huddersfield and Millwall do their jobs in the coming week...
Bluejuice
Lazy as a rug on Valium
Frankly I'd consider it a mockery of the football league were they to get anything back.
They broke the rules and tried to swindle the situation to their own advantage.
They are cheats run by a crook.
I even have some sympathy for their fans but this would be an injustice of MEGALITHIC proportions to just give in to their moaning and would also set a precedent leaving the door open for other clubs with debt problems to seek out loopholes to gain themselves an unfair advantage.
If they get enough points back to push someone else out of Play Off contention what's to stop the ousted club going to the courts to fight it themselves and demand compensation for the money they've lost out on from the extra games and potential Wembley final? It will just go on and on and on. This tribunal panel need to show some balls or where will it all end?
They broke the rules and tried to swindle the situation to their own advantage.
They are cheats run by a crook.
I even have some sympathy for their fans but this would be an injustice of MEGALITHIC proportions to just give in to their moaning and would also set a precedent leaving the door open for other clubs with debt problems to seek out loopholes to gain themselves an unfair advantage.
If they get enough points back to push someone else out of Play Off contention what's to stop the ousted club going to the courts to fight it themselves and demand compensation for the money they've lost out on from the extra games and potential Wembley final? It will just go on and on and on. This tribunal panel need to show some balls or where will it all end?
But what rules were broken, Bluejuice? This is the problem the FL have now. No rule was broken, they punished us for a rule that does not exist (and there has not since been a member vote to amend the rule book.)
How could another club try to bring a court case if we do get our points back? On what basis? That we were given back points that shouldn't have been taken away? There is no rule that says we should have been deducted them.
The FL awarded us exceptional circumstances and then by the same stroke punished us, we either had EC or we did not. It cannot be both (according to the FL rules)
The FL voted in one way on the LU CVA and in the opposing way on CVAs at other clubs since. Despite always being guaranteed an 100% return.
And the FL are confident this will be over one way or the other by Friday. The solution/result will be made public then (or saturday) so as to allow the season to finish, play offs to go ahead but the actual black and white of the case won't be released until mid-May. Too late for anyone else to challenge perhaps?
How could another club try to bring a court case if we do get our points back? On what basis? That we were given back points that shouldn't have been taken away? There is no rule that says we should have been deducted them.
The FL awarded us exceptional circumstances and then by the same stroke punished us, we either had EC or we did not. It cannot be both (according to the FL rules)
The FL voted in one way on the LU CVA and in the opposing way on CVAs at other clubs since. Despite always being guaranteed an 100% return.
And the FL are confident this will be over one way or the other by Friday. The solution/result will be made public then (or saturday) so as to allow the season to finish, play offs to go ahead but the actual black and white of the case won't be released until mid-May. Too late for anyone else to challenge perhaps?
Tooting Gull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 11,033
To be honest, I don't give a toss either way any more. But the whole thing is very shabby, and Leeds come out with very little credit however unfairly they claim to have been treated. You either approve of the way the creditors were shafted, or you don't, and most of us don't.
But I can't believe even the most biased, one-eyed Leeds fan can think it is right for this to be happening in April after a whole season of the table being calculated a particular way.
But I can't believe even the most biased, one-eyed Leeds fan can think it is right for this to be happening in April after a whole season of the table being calculated a particular way.
Bluejuice
Lazy as a rug on Valium
Leeds broke the rules by going into administration in the first place. This is why there is a penalty for doing so.
Calling in the receivers should be the very last resort when there is absolutely no alternative, not a get out of jail card.
Calling in the receivers should be the very last resort when there is absolutely no alternative, not a get out of jail card.
Quite. But what does that have to do with the arbitration? This weeks arbitration has nothing to do with the 10 point deduction we quite rightly received for going into administration.
Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!
Primary data is fact
Starry,
Fully understand your post except for this section.
1) FL voting one way on the LU CVA but differently on others? What's this about fella? Were the circumstances identical/comparable?
2) FL guaranteed a 100% return of what? I didn't think/know the FL was a creditor of either LU Original or 2007?
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Thats the kind of inaccuracy that gets siezed upon. Its not against any rules to go into administration.
My understanding is that they broke the rules by coming out of administration WITHOUT having a CVA in place. Thats what they were hit the 15 points for. They're arguing the toss because it doesn't say in the rulebook "come out of admin without a CVA and we'll deduct 15 points".
Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!
Primary data is fact
I don't think there's even a FL rule that requires them to have a CVA in place; from some of Starry's earlier posts it seems to be a 'recommendation' (at best).
Hence, points deducted for breaking a non-existent rule leading to a challenge/appeal by Leeds.
Bluejuice
Lazy as a rug on Valium
In which case I stand corrected
sten_super
Brain Surgeon
I think the FL rules state that you are only not required to have a CVA under 'exceptional circumstances'. Bates argued that these were exceptional circumstances, as HMRCs position of arranging a challenge to the CVA to be heard after the start of the season meant that the club wouldn't receive their golden share in time for the start of the season; so the club were forced to go through alternative means. Leeds are arguing that the rules say only 'under exceptional circumstances', nothing about 'under exceptional circumstances whereby you will be deducted points as well'. They are saying that the FL cannot make up rules on the fly; however it would seem to be that that entirely is the leagues role and the leagues perogative, as the ruling body of the Football League.
They are also seperately arguing that they had no choice about accepting the 15 point penalty; the FL said 'accept the 15 points or there is no golden share'. Apparently this is frowned upon in law, although to you and me it sounds fairly cut and dried.
They are also seperately arguing that they had no choice about accepting the 15 point penalty; the FL said 'accept the 15 points or there is no golden share'. Apparently this is frowned upon in law, although to you and me it sounds fairly cut and dried.
Mr C
..ooOOoo..
Morally though, Leeds shafted the system and knowingly went into administration with the knowledge that the 10-point reduction would not hurt them.
Therefore, with points deducted (as of this moment), you know in your heart that it was right to have the 15 points taken away. Forget about LU07 or Leeds United or new company vs old company blah blah blah. The club running as Leeds United deserved a punishment (losing points) which they basically avoided. Now they have it.
End of.
sten_super
Brain Surgeon
Of course that is true. But do you think that any club in the land (and I mean any) would not challenge a 'shaky' decision. The fact that Leeds deserve punishment is pretty much beyond argument; the manner in which they have behaved (chiefly their board) has been extremely unscrupulous. However, the grounds (in a legal sense) for the punishment they have received is rather dodgy.