Will Greece Be First Relegation From Eurozone ?

[Uncle Spielberg]

Don't forget " we are all in this together " and let's help to build " the Big Society ".

 

[User removed 4]

True, Germany had strong growth in the first 1/4, France is not in recession, the UK however, in recession and a 0.1% negative growth in the last 18 months. Well done David. Him and Osborne utterly clueless I am sad to say.

France also pays a lot more than us to borrow Uncle, due to their credit rating being cut, have a look at this article.


Bank Of England Governor Mervyn King Quoted As Saying Election Winner Will Loose Power For Years | Business | Sky News

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No doubt you have bored your friends and used the patronising 'little Englander' swipe on many of them.

Do you really think I surround myself with little Englanders?

Just accept that you got it totally wrong.

Germany has a 2% growth, youth unemployment a 1/3 of ours and is a big time player in the EU. Have you ever stopped to think, that could have been us?

scrambling around just trying to glean something that might offer your view some authority.

I do not have to scramble too far or too deep...I just need to look at readily available top level employment and economic figures from the Bosch. Like most people I'm sure, I'd prefer to lead than be led. We're being led in Europe now.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

France also pays a lot more than us to borrow Uncle, due to their credit rating being cut, have a look at this article.


Bank Of England Governor Mervyn King Quoted As Saying Election Winner Will Loose Power For Years | Business | Sky News

Does that not make the fact they are not in recession and we are even more damning of this shambolic government ?

I voted Tory last time for the first time in my life. NEVER again.

 

[User removed 4]

Instead of anti-EU rhetoric they need to be think about business and be pro-active. This lazy idea that "rolling back the state" alone will free up British business is not working. We need to spend more on infrastructure, help small to medium businesses finance growth, stop pissing about at the airports, stop screwing every single public sector and educate the kids of today to be the workers of tomorrow.

Absolutely , so lets get rid of this sill labour inspired idea that 50% of students should be " degree " educated , and train them to be craftsmen instead of studying sports centre management or travel and tourism or a whole plethora of wank subjects that at best should be studied at the local technical college.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Absolutely , so lets get rid of this sill labour inspired idea that 50% of students should be " degree " educated , and train them to be craftsmen instead of studying sports centre management or travel and tourism or a whole plethora of wank subjects that at best should be studied at the local technical college.

Totally agree (here we go again ). It was a stupid idea from Labour and making Polytechnics universities was stupid as well.

My view is that secondary and higher education should be taken out of the hands of the government like in Norway (I think). It's totally confused and incoherent these days and major reforms seem to happen with every general election. Academies, free schools, state schools. I mean, what the f***? Do we need reforms every 5 years? No. Take it out of the hands of the government and make elected experts decide what needs to doing. The police manage this without too much political interface....except the Met but then they are a law unto themselves....literally. It's too important to let a new Secretary for State Education meddle with it every few years.

In other countries sparks, plumber and builders have a high standing in society and are highly skilled and respected; annual exams are the norm to enable the work force keep up to date. It's a trade youngsters plan for as they know they will get respect, pride, a proper career and a decent salary. This also discourages cowboy operators as you cannot simply or easily set up a business as it needs to be properly registered. You pay more, but then you get a good job pretty much guaranteed. This comes back to my previous comments about educating the nation to buy quality.

 

[Simster]

Do you really think I surround myself with little Englanders?

Germany has a 2% growth, youth unemployment a 1/3 of ours and is a big time player in the EU. Have you ever stopped to think, that could have been us?

I do not have to scramble too far or too deep...I just need to look at readily available top level employment and economic figures from the Bosch. Like most people I'm sure, I'd prefer to lead than be led. We're being led in Europe now.

Sadly, for every Germany and Netherlands, there is a Greece and Portugal. I think the key issue is that the Euro needn't have been a failed project (and probably won't be in the long run) if they had simply rolled it out to similarly structured economies, rather than pretending that the Greeks were meeting all the economic targets before the Euro came into practice.

As for us, I was pro Euro but am pleased we stayed out in hindsight. We haven't lost out in the slightest, and our economy is structured around debt in a way that the German, French and Dutch economies are not.

Absolutely , so lets get rid of this sill labour inspired idea that 50% of students should be " degree " educated , and train them to be craftsmen instead of studying sports centre management or travel and tourism or a whole plethora of wank subjects that at best should be studied at the local technical college.

And this is spot on, frankly. Except I'd say this was hardly a Labour plank any more than a Tory one. The Tories were the ones who ditched YTS, the original state sponsored training scheme, and there were shit university degrees in theatre design and such back then in 1989.

 

[BigGully]

Do you really think I surround myself with little Englanders?



Germany has a 2% growth, youth unemployment a 1/3 of ours and is a big time player in the EU. Have you ever stopped to think, that could have been us?



I do not have to scramble too far or too deep...I just need to look at readily available top level employment and economic figures from the Bosch. Like most people I'm sure, I'd prefer to lead than be led. We're being led in Europe now.

You seem to recommending the Euro, theres faith and faith but come on.

 

[User removed 4]

Sadly, for every Germany and Netherlands, there is a Greece and Portugal. I think the key issue is that the Euro needn't have been a failed project (and probably won't be in the long run) if they had simply rolled it out to similarly structured economies, rather than pretending that the Greeks were meeting all the economic targets before the Euro came into practice.

As for us, I was pro Euro but am pleased we stayed out in hindsight. We haven't lost out in the slightest, and our economy is structured around debt in a way that the German, French and Dutch economies are not.

And this is spot on, frankly. Except I'd say this was hardly a Labour plank any more than a Tory one. The Tories were the ones who ditched YTS, the original state sponsored training scheme, and there were shit university degrees in theatre design and such back then in 1989.

Much as it sticks in the throat, we really, really need to learn from the germans if we are to regenerate an industrial base .

 

[Simster]

You seem to recommending the Euro, theres faith and faith but come on.

There's nothing wrong with the concept at all, but only if economic conditions in the affected countries are relatively aligned. Had the Eurozone only included Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and France, I think it would be a massive success.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

There's nothing wrong with the concept at all, but only if economic conditions in the affected countries are relatively aligned. Had the Eurozone only included England, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and France, I think it would be a massive success.

I have corrected you

I agree in part.

 

[Simster]

I have corrected you

I agree in part.

The problem with our presence in the Eurozone is that a European central bank needs to serve the interests of the entire zone. However, we are a borrowing nation where buying a property is part of the culture which is in stark contrast to Germany where that isn't necessarily the case. How can a European central bank control interest rates and always have the interests of both countries at heart?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Much as it sticks in the throat, we really, really need to learn from the germans if we are to regenerate an industrial base .

I just wish whichever government is in power could see this. It will be a slow-haul but a profitable one.

 

[sten_super]

There's nothing wrong with the concept at all, but only if economic conditions in the affected countries are relatively aligned. Had the Eurozone only included Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and France, I think it would be a massive success.

I would agree that an EZ of just those members wouldn't have had the same problems, but I don't agree that there's nothing wrong with the concept. Monetary union should be simply a step along the road to complete union (i.e. including fiscal). Otherwise over the long term the differences get exacerbated until they reach breaking point. It may have taken another 20+ years, but even with just those countries you mention differences would appear between their economic and trade performance and the productivity of some nations would have suffered while others increased - without the ability to have fiscal transfers between these countries IMHO the project just doesn't work long term.

 

[keithbeaky]

Its all over anyway. Germany are leading this all in the wrong direction. Austerity is needed but you also need to stimulate growth otherwise you will just end up with countries going to a spiral of debt and never coming out. Spain is so much worse off since their "package" The rates are too high and there is also not enough ring fencing.

 

[BigGully]

There's nothing wrong with the concept at all, but only if economic conditions in the affected countries are relatively aligned. Had the Eurozone only included Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and France, I think it would be a massive success.

You have effectively said that the Euro is/was flawed.

It is easy to present a retrospective view of how it might have succeeded.

Many commentators and politicians were representing your retrospective view when the Euro was being born, but they pushed through with it anyway.

It was always a political project and this weakened it likelihood to succeed.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The problem with our presence in the Eurozone is that a European central bank needs to serve the interests of the entire zone. However, we are a borrowing nation where buying a property is part of the culture which is in stark contrast to Germany where that isn't necessarily the case. How can a European central bank control interest rates and always have the interests of both countries at heart?

Fair point. But there are many many other areas where what is good for one is bad for another. Even in our own country where we set our own interest rates they benefit one and not another. The house purchase angle is not insurmountable with some smart thinking. Very little is. Maybe a new model for mortages can be brought in?

 

[User removed 4]

I just wish whichever government is in power could see this. It will be a slow-haul but a profitable one.

its not just the government , its US, the good old british public who needs to see it as well, along with the something for nothing merchants, the workforce, the management, the banks , everyone.

 

[User removed 4]

Fair point. But there are many many other areas where what is good for one is bad for another. Even in our own country where we set our own interest rates they benefit one and not another. The house purchase angle is not insurmountable with some smart thinking. Very little is. Maybe a new model for mortages can be brought in?

I'm pretty sure that in the USA, mortgage interest rates are set for the whole of the mortgage period ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm pretty sure that in the USA, mortgage interest rates are set for the whole of the mortgage period ?

Correct. And you can also get them for really long periods like 30+ years.