Will Cummings go?

[Uh_huh_him]

Good points however 'Stay at Home' was only ever guidance not against the law as there were exemptions along the lines of reasonable excuses. If he had a reasonable excuse then he was not committing any offence and even if he did not have a reasonable excuse then he would have to be stopped by police and then refuse to comply with their directions to commit an offence - this clearly did not happen, just being outside and travelling was not in itself an offence. Providing care to a vulnerable person was one of the reasonable excuses. He may have been been stretching the guidelines but frankly millions of people were and continue to do so daily.

I'm by no means defending him I'm simply concerned at the level of hysteria and politically motivated/media vitriol aimed at this man and indirectly his innocent family, no one deserves that, its nasty and unnecessary.

Yeah sure.

Never against the law and the guidance only applied to the little people not him.

We are aware of this, this is where the vitriol is coming from.
His arrogance is the problem, not political allegiance.

 

[Guinness Boy]

But if he does resign, it will not help with the difficult times ahead, arguably it will make thing worse, and some seem to want the government to fail at the costs of human lives and increased depression.
They appear to be able to see no further than the end of their noses.

So disappointed with the lack of coming together, and all driven by extremists and media salespeople.
Until these negative stories stop, we will never progress, but to do that you need to stop feeding the trolls, I will only watch the factually COVID news from now on I will not be viewed in there bloodthirsty stats.

There's been a lot of coming together from across society lately, driven by Cummings being a hypocritical **** and the Prime Minister being socially distanced from anything resembling a ****ing backbone.

Oh, and before you or anyone else derides that statement as "faux anger" let me assure you that, based on my personal circumstances, it is very real anger.

Indeed [MENTION=4675]Frutos[/MENTION] . It seems to me the left wing media, right wing media, Church of England and population of the country are 100% united in their belief that Cummings is the second biggest James Blunt in the world after Trump.

 

[amexer]

I have a 4 year old boy too.

If my partner was bed ridden and I was concerned that I might be cumming down too, I would take several steps before breaking Government guidelines.

1. Contact my family (the ones who are not vulnerable) and ask them to prepare to collect my child.
2. Contact good friends with similar aged children and request the same.
3. Contact my GP for advice.
4. Contact social services and ask for help.
5. Contact the Police for advice.
6. Contact my MP for advice.
7. Ignore Government advice and transport Covid-19 around the Country.

If points 1-6 did not provide a solution, my conscience would be reasonably clear that I’d tried everything I could having informed various authorities of my actions.

Alternatively, you and arrogant Cummings just skip to point 7? You’re ‘look after number 1’ attitude has been the opposite of what the Government has been asking us to do, thousands of people have made huge sacrifices but Cummings is obviously ‘allowed’ to make up his own rules backed by the worst PM this Country has ever seen.

What do you think of his family days out at the castle after his isolation ?

How nice to be perfect

 

[GT49er]

I don't think he is saying all leave voters are supporting Cummings because that is very, very clearly not the case. However when you look at the most ardent supporters of Cummings over the last few days

Baker lite, Mouldy Boots, cunning fergus, bashlsdir, pastafarian, JC Footy Genius, Fifth Column.

They were all vociferous Brexit supporters. And I'll leave it there as this is a Cummings thread.

I agree that that is a list of prominent pro-Brexit posters, but I really haven't seen a lot of activity from some of them on this thread - yes, FC and MB have waded in lately, but the rest, not much I think. And most of the recent Cummings apologists aren't on your list, and plenty of pro-Brexit people have joined in the justified criticism of Cummings and BJ's handling of the affair.

The ridiculous links made between Brexit and the Cummings affair have come from remainers complaining that Brexiteers are supporting Cummings. Some are - but it's silly to make that an argument in this debate - Brexit just doesn't come into it. The far more relevant fact is that yesterday evening Boris united most of the country - leave and remain - in total condemnation of his clusterf**k of a press briefing.

 

[The Fifth Column]

Anyway, I've voiced my opinion others have voiced theirs including some good counter arguments from [MENTION=4675]Frutos[/MENTION] [MENTION=23289]father_and_son[/MENTION] and others which have given me some pause for thought, at the risk of resorting to a standard NSC binfest slanging match I'm bowing out of the discussion now. Not that it matters but I happen to think Cummings is a total CJTC regardless of the rights and wrongs of whats happened. Bring back football, I'm much better at debating that

 

[lawros left foot]

Yeah sure.

Never against the law and the guidance only applied to the little people not him.

We are aware of this, this is where the vitriol is coming from.
His arrogance is the problem, not political allegiance.

I believe he did break the law.

Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020

 

[sydney]

think it has to be said cummings is guilty of a whopping faux pas , however as a card carrying member of the hierarchy he probably deems himself above the laws that everybody else has been bound by for the last 10 weeks .....at the end of the day its up to BJ to demand his position , if he doesn't then he is equally in the spotlight as being dismissive of the public and their feelings towards him as PM.

 

[GT49er]

Good points however 'Stay at Home' was only ever guidance not against the law as there were exemptions along the lines of reasonable excuses. If he had a reasonable excuse then he was not committing any offence and even if he did not have a reasonable excuse then he would have to be stopped by police and then refuse to comply with their directions to commit an offence - this clearly did not happen, just being outside and travelling was not in itself an offence. Providing care to a vulnerable person was one of the reasonable excuses. He may have been been stretching the guidelines but frankly millions of people were and continue to do so daily.

You sure about that?

(see Lawro's Left Foot's post, two above).

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

You posted: Why post if you don't care & You care.... you care very much. You were clearly using the word 'care' to somehow further your argument and provoke a response it had nothing to do with whether I care or not. I will clarify for you as you seem to have a hard time understanding. I said I didn't particularly care about his actions, that doesn't automatically then preclude me from contributing to a post about the issues, that's such a poor and weak argument to ignore the context of the word 'care', "Urgh You said you didn't care so can't join this debate". I see it all the time in forums whenever someone hasn't got anything constructive to say or counter they just attack the poster instead, well done I guess you smashed that debate eh.

The topic is about his actions. You care not for his actions.

I find it amusing that someone e who turns up on threads with controversial views gets upset when people don’t agree with them or dismisses them. Bit I stand corrected you’ve clearly smashed this debate right out of the ball park!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ATFC Seagull]

,
True.


No it really isn't. You seem to have suddenly jumped into this thread without taking much notice of previous posts.

Yes I did - apologies. I wasn't really joining in the discussion on the thread rather than giving my opinion about the issue at hand.

As I said I wasn't talking about on this thread, but more widely on twitter etc. Also I'm not saying all Brexiteers would support Cummings, but I do think most people supporting Cummings are probably also leave supporters (again, widely - not necessarily on this thread as you're right, I have not read it all). Probably quite lazily phrased by me but I was just linking the situation to the wider divide in politics - not meaning to say that everyone has picked sides based on this. In fact I think probably where this might all come crashing down for BJ is that a lot of his base don't back him on this.

My opinion is that 5 or more years ago someone in this position would have gone under any PM (Cameron, Brown, Blair, Major, even Thatcher). I think the reason he hasn't is not just his tight link with BJ, but also this increasingly "us vs them" political atmosphere.

 

[Bodian]

Good points however 'Stay at Home' was only ever guidance not against the law as there were exemptions along the lines of reasonable excuses. If he had a reasonable excuse then he was not committing any offence and even if he did not have a reasonable excuse then he would have to be stopped by police and then refuse to comply with their directions to commit an offence - this clearly did not happen, just being outside and travelling was not in itself an offence. Providing care to a vulnerable person was one of the reasonable excuses. He may have been been stretching the guidelines but frankly millions of people were and continue to do so daily.

I'm by no means defending him I'm simply concerned at the level of hysteria and politically motivated/media vitriol aimed at this man and indirectly his innocent family, no one deserves that, its nasty and unnecessary.

The only one innocent in this is his son, and no-one is aiming any vitriol at him.

• His wife must have been involved and party to the decision. Then she wrote an article that gave every impression (when combined with other information) that they were hunkered down at their home in London.
• His parents must have been consulted and agreed for them to come and stay in their annex.
• His sister likewise.
• All of them contributed, will have known that it was wrong and hypocritical - and have not come out to say that they disagreed with it.

His family are not innocent.

 

[rogersix]

100% agree, some of the hatred of people people concerns me, they are baying for someone's blood all the time.
It all appears to smack of sourgrapes from anti brexit or anti tory, in the meantime they are trying to rip our country apart at a time when we need to be joined as humanly possible.

It's a sad place to be in the uk with these extremists.

Are they insane?

you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

seriously, how do you do it?

 

[Tom Bombadil]

. Bring back football, I'm much better at debating that

No you're not

 

[Stato]

I don't think that the press will let up on this until he does go. He has done something at time of national crisis that has united a large section of the country against the government's stance. Backbench Tory MPs are complaining about the optics of them having to support him and at this stage, The Mail has turned and there is very little sign of the Sun getting off the fence and backing Johnson in the face of their readers' outrage.

Underneath the story there is also a bit of Realpolitik going on. The media know that Cummings was behind this government's circumnavigation of them: issuing statements via social media, refusing to send government representatives to face the Today Programme music, etc. At a time of financial crisis for journalism, a story like this is a bit of a godsend. Media outlets will be like a pack of dogs this week trying to get more on this story.

Those who like Cummings will claim foul play and argue that he isn't getting fair treatment, but the current available facts leave them sounding like the tiny minority of Brighton fans who tried to argue that Andone slipped against Southampton. The old cliche with spindoctors/Spads is that when you become the story, you're finished. The longer Johnson tries to buck this, the longer the story will run and the more damage it will do him.

All of this may sound unfair, but Cummings' downfall would be a very good thing for democracy in the UK. This is not about whether he is left or right, or Brexit or Remain, it is about his willingness to trash the rules of the game, and with that, any possibility that a government can be held to account by a sense of shared morality. Those who like his politics may claim that all is fair in love and war, but would be rightly outraged should the opposition find success with similar tactics. The polarisation in the US shows that democracies fail when agreed norms are not adhered to by all sides. We don't want political parties gerrymandering, replacing neutral civil servants with political appointees, making up their own rules or their own truths, or attacking the courts if the law threatens their agenda. This crisis has shown why it is important for a nation to have trust in its institutions and it seems fitting that a disregard for this will be both the motivation and the fatal flaw in Cumming's personal Shakespearian tragedy.

 

[The Wizard]

https://twitter.com/cr4igduncan/status/1264644323632611330?s=21

What a disgrace, the media should be ashamed. Barely anyone wearing masks either.

 

[wellquickwoody]

As a member of the ‘right’ on here, but from afar, I say this........

Cummings is a stupid, arrogant shit and should resign his position immediately.

If he won’t, then Boris should fire him immediately.

Whatever will be will be, but the handling of this crisis by the UK government has been nothing short of incompetent. Thankfully Jezza is history and maybe Keir Starmer will become the next Labour Prime Minister.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

https://twitter.com/cr4igduncan/status/1264644323632611330?s=21

What a disgrace, the media should be ashamed. Barely anyone wearing masks either.

What do you expect? People have made huge sacrifices in recent weeks. There is going to be anger when people are seen as above the law.

I find it hard to feel too much sympathy for Cummings. The vitriolic right wing media is something he has used in his favour a lot. For once, they are now against him

 

[rogersix]

How nice to be perfect

ooo, good comeback... you're on FIRE!

 

[The Wizard]

What do you expect? People have made huge sacrifices in recent weeks. There is going to be anger when people are seen as above the law.

I find it hard to feel too much sympathy for Cummings. The vitriolic right wing media is something he has used in his favour a lot. For once, they are now against him

How about the the irony of the outraged media, advocating their reporters behaving like this, I don’t expect anything more of the press don’t you worry but during a pandemic and given this outrage is caused by someone breaking lockdown rules, the biggest irony is if any one of these reporters has asymptomatic coronavirus half those there could now also have it.

Absolute hypocrisy from the media, as usual. In my opinion they have absolutely disgraced themselves throughout this whole pandemic.

 

[GT49er]

Yes I did - apologies. I wasn't really joining in the discussion on the thread rather than giving my opinion about the issue at hand.

As I said I wasn't talking about on this thread, but more widely on twitter etc. Also I'm not saying all Brexiteers would support Cummings, but I do think most people supporting Cummings are probably also leave supporters (again, widely - not necessarily on this thread as you're right, I have not read it all). Probably quite lazily phrased by me but I was just linking the situation to the wider divide in politics - not meaning to say that everyone has picked sides based on this. In fact I think probably where this might all come crashing down for BJ is that a lot of his base don't back him on this.

Fair enough!