[Albion] Will Brighton be allowed to play in Europe?

[Herr Tubthumper]

Isn't one of them just sponsored by Red Bull and the other one owned?

Both are owned by Red Bull as far as I know.

 

[halbpro]

forgive my ignorance on this but don't German clubs have to have majority fan ownership or something? which is why Leipzig's structure may not have fallen foul of that rule

Red Bull basically bought out a 5th tier non-league club's playing rights. They were low enough down that they don't fall under the league's ownership rules. They then got promoted up pretty rapidly (5th to 1st division in 8 seasons). Think they even came 2nd in their first top flight season

 

[GT49er]

If Brighton qualifies for Europe, I wonder if they will have a problem with Tony Bloom having interests in Brighton and Royale Union Saint-Gilloise, seeing as they are both likely to qualify?
Because as I am reading it (and I may be wrong), a person cannot hold interests in two clubs, both playing in UEFA club competitions.

It may make some sense in what De Zerbi said at the weekend as well:
Asked what European qualification could mean for his club's stature, the 43-year-old said on Saturday: "You have to ask this question of Tony [Bloom]. For sure we would like to try to arrive in the Europa League, but for the level of the club, it is not my problem.

"I don't know the politics of the club. I can't decide, no? I can decide the way in terms of quality of play, in terms of style of play, yes, the first 11, but the politics of the club, no."

5.01
To ensure the integrity of the UEFA club competitions (i.e. UEFA Champions League, UEFA Europa League and UEFA Europa Conference League), the following criteria apply:

1. No club participating in a UEFA club competition may, either directly or indirectly:
   1. hold or deal in the securities or shares of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition;
   2. be a member of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition;
   3. be involved in any capacity whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition; or
   4. have any power whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition.
2. No one may simultaneously be involved, either directly or indirectly, in any capacity whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of more than one club participating in a UEFA club competition.
3. No individual or legal entity may have control or influence over more than one club participating in a UEFA club competition, such control or influence being defined in this context as:
   1. holding a majority of the shareholders’ voting rights;
   2. having the right to appoint or remove a majority of the members of the administrative, management or supervisory body of the club;
   3. being a shareholder and alone controlling a majority of the shareholders’ voting rights pursuant to an agreement entered into with other shareholders of the club; or
   4. being able to exercise by any means a decisive influence in the decision-making of the club.

5.02
If two or more clubs fail to meet the criteria aimed at ensuring the integrity of the competition, only one of them may be admitted to a UEFA club competition, in accordance with the following criteria (applicable in descending order):

1. the club which qualifies on sporting merit for the most prestigious UEFA club competition (i.e., in descending order: UEFA Champions League, UEFA Europa League or UEFA Europa Conference League);
2. the club which was ranked highest in the domestic championship giving access to the relevant UEFA club competition;
3. the club whose association is ranked highest in the access list (see Annex A).

https://documents.uefa.com/r/Regulations-of-the-UEFA-Europa-League-2022/23/Article-5-Integrity-of-the-competition/multi-club-ownership-Online

Cough ........................................... Red Bull

 

[Icy Gull]

You have to ask this question of Tony [Bloom]. For sure we would like to try to arrive in the Europa League, but for the level of the club, it is not my problem.

That sounds uncomfortably Poyetesque

 

[Crawley Dingo]

Interesting...

Although the question should really be "Will USG be allowed to play in Europe?"

Or which club will Tony drop? Its not an issue for us but USG.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So what everyone is saying is we can get round the rules with some clever ownership/sponsorship structure that ‘secretly’ changes nothing. That’s all right then. Luckily we aren’t discussing Newcastle, Man City or any of the other usual suspects. Nothing to see here.

 

[peterward]

If Brighton qualifies for Europe, I wonder if they will have a problem with Tony Bloom having interests in Brighton and Royale Union Saint-Gilloise, seeing as they are both likely to qualify?
Because as I am reading it (and I may be wrong), a person cannot hold interests in two clubs, both playing in UEFA club competitions.

It may make some sense in what De Zerbi said at the weekend as well:
Asked what European qualification could mean for his club's stature, the 43-year-old said on Saturday: "You have to ask this question of Tony [Bloom]. For sure we would like to try to arrive in the Europa League, but for the level of the club, it is not my problem.

"I don't know the politics of the club. I can't decide, no? I can decide the way in terms of quality of play, in terms of style of play, yes, the first 11, but the politics of the club, no."

5.01
To ensure the integrity of the UEFA club competitions (i.e. UEFA Champions League, UEFA Europa League and UEFA Europa Conference League), the following criteria apply:

1. No club participating in a UEFA club competition may, either directly or indirectly:
   1. hold or deal in the securities or shares of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition;
   2. be a member of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition;
   3. be involved in any capacity whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition; or
   4. have any power whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition.
2. No one may simultaneously be involved, either directly or indirectly, in any capacity whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of more than one club participating in a UEFA club competition.
3. No individual or legal entity may have control or influence over more than one club participating in a UEFA club competition, such control or influence being defined in this context as:
   1. holding a majority of the shareholders’ voting rights;
   2. having the right to appoint or remove a majority of the members of the administrative, management or supervisory body of the club;
   3. being a shareholder and alone controlling a majority of the shareholders’ voting rights pursuant to an agreement entered into with other shareholders of the club; or
   4. being able to exercise by any means a decisive influence in the decision-making of the club.

5.02
If two or more clubs fail to meet the criteria aimed at ensuring the integrity of the competition, only one of them may be admitted to a UEFA club competition, in accordance with the following criteria (applicable in descending order):

1. the club which qualifies on sporting merit for the most prestigious UEFA club competition (i.e., in descending order: UEFA Champions League, UEFA Europa League or UEFA Europa Conference League);
2. the club which was ranked highest in the domestic championship giving access to the relevant UEFA club competition;
3. the club whose association is ranked highest in the access list (see Annex A).

https://documents.uefa.com/r/Regulations-of-the-UEFA-Europa-League-2022/23/Article-5-Integrity-of-the-competition/multi-club-ownership-Online

I don't think we will fall victim. Bloom is a majority shareholder at USG with his long time business partner Alex Muzio...... and this is from that sale.

"In 2018, Bloom completed the takeover of Belgian second division club Union SG. It is understood that although Bloom is the majority owner of USG, he has no day-to-day involvement with the club which is run independently of both him and Brighton."

Even if being a shareholder alone and non active in day to day will preclude us? If that is a conflict, Bloom could on paper transfer his USG holding to Muzio as representative of beneficial owner.

I don't see this being a problem or being difficult to circumnavigate.

 

[Superphil]

USG could be in the Champions League, if we scrape into the Europa Conference and one has to give, would it be us or them?

On a separate note, IIRC, should we make it into a European competition, then the 1901 seats in the WSM will all be commandeered by UEFA leaving 2000+ fans to be relocated elsewhere in the stadium.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

So what everyone is saying is we can get round the rules with some clever ownership/sponsorship structure that ‘secretly’ changes nothing. That’s all right then. Luckily we aren’t discussing Newcastle, Man City or any of the other usual suspects. Nothing to see here.

There is nothing to get round as a precedent has already been set with the Red Bull clubs. Brighton and RUSG are ran as separate entities and share no staff or board members other than via loaning of players. Tony Bloom is not involved in the day to day running of RUSG so we do not fall foul of any of the ownership rules that UEFA have in place. It really isn't that difficult to understand.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

Interesting...

Although the question should really be "Will USG be allowed to play in Europe?"

One would hope so. l mean, it's priorities innit?

 

[pure_white]

i wish i hadnt read that BUT id rather read it now then we qualify and im absolutely gutted. I Think the club need to talk to fans about this though as im sure many will renew o the basis of seeing European football

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/sports/soccer/uefa-soccer-red-bull-champions-league.html

"UEFA Approves Entry of 2 Red Bull-Branded Teams in Champions League"​

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

There is nothing to get round as a precedent has already been set with the Red Bull clubs. Brighton and RUSG are ran as separate entities and share no staff or board members other than via loaning of players. Tony Bloom is not involved in the day to day running of RUSG so we do not fall foul of any of the ownership rules that UEFA have in place. It really isn't that difficult to understand.

Read the OP again. See what you make of ‘directly or indirectly’ and the various clauses. It is questionable at the very least. That’s easy to understand.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

Read the OP again. See what you make of ‘directly or indirectly’ and the various clauses. It is questionable at the very least. That’s easy to understand.

Yes it is a question, but as I and others have explained it isn't going to be an issue. The same checks that were made for the two Red Bull clubs will be made for us and RUSG should the need arise and UEFA will find the same separate structures and two clubs being ran as separate entities, in fact I'd say us and RUSG are even more separate then the Red Bull clubs are.

For a start Tony Bloom would have known this to be a potential issue and would have made sure the clubs wouldn't fall foul of the rules, secondly because of the precedent already set, if UEFA didn't allow both clubs into Europe I imagine Tony, PB and Alex Muzio would be on the phone to the lawyers very quickly and taking this to The Court of Arbitration for Sport if need be.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

There is nothing to get round as a precedent has already been set with the Red Bull clubs. Brighton and RUSG are ran as separate entities and share no staff or board members other than via loaning of players. Tony Bloom is not involved in the day to day running of RUSG so we do not fall foul of any of the ownership rules that UEFA have in place. It really isn't that difficult to understand.

Well, you say that, but it is very hard from a read of the rules to see (a) how RB got round these rules, or (b) how TB will get round them. The rules cover a lot more than just 'day-to-day running' of the clubs.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Or which club will Tony drop? Its not an issue for us but USG.

Interesting...

Although the question should really be "Will USG be allowed to play in Europe?"

Yes, if there were any conflict, sadly USG would be the ones to miss out. More likely TB would look to make a sale of the club and maybe move the project elsewhere.

from a read of the rules, not so sure we would get in if we were found to fall foul of this rule

If two or more clubs fail to meet the criteria aimed at ensuring the integrity of the competition, only one of them may be admitted to a UEFA club competition, in accordance with the following criteria (applicable in descending order):

1. the club which qualifies on sporting merit for the most prestigious UEFA club competition (i.e., in descending order: UEFA Champions League, UEFA Europa League or UEFA Europa Conference League);
2. the club which was ranked highest in the domestic championship giving access to the relevant UEFA club competition;
3. the club whose association is ranked highest in the access list (see Annex A).

 

[TimWatt]

If Brighton qualifies for Europe, I wonder if they will have a problem with Tony Bloom having interests in Brighton and Royale Union Saint-Gilloise, seeing as they are both likely to qualify?
Because as I am reading it (and I may be wrong), a person cannot hold interests in two clubs, both playing in UEFA club competitions.

It may make some sense in what De Zerbi said at the weekend as well:
Asked what European qualification could mean for his club's stature, the 43-year-old said on Saturday: "You have to ask this question of Tony [Bloom]. For sure we would like to try to arrive in the Europa League, but for the level of the club, it is not my problem.

"I don't know the politics of the club. I can't decide, no? I can decide the way in terms of quality of play, in terms of style of play, yes, the first 11, but the politics of the club, no."

5.01
To ensure the integrity of the UEFA club competitions (i.e. UEFA Champions League, UEFA Europa League and UEFA Europa Conference League), the following criteria apply:

1. No club participating in a UEFA club competition may, either directly or indirectly:
   1. hold or deal in the securities or shares of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition;
   2. be a member of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition;
   3. be involved in any capacity whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition; or
   4. have any power whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition.
2. No one may simultaneously be involved, either directly or indirectly, in any capacity whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of more than one club participating in a UEFA club competition.
3. No individual or legal entity may have control or influence over more than one club participating in a UEFA club competition, such control or influence being defined in this context as:
   1. holding a majority of the shareholders’ voting rights;
   2. having the right to appoint or remove a majority of the members of the administrative, management or supervisory body of the club;
   3. being a shareholder and alone controlling a majority of the shareholders’ voting rights pursuant to an agreement entered into with other shareholders of the club; or
   4. being able to exercise by any means a decisive influence in the decision-making of the club.

5.02
If two or more clubs fail to meet the criteria aimed at ensuring the integrity of the competition, only one of them may be admitted to a UEFA club competition, in accordance with the following criteria (applicable in descending order):

1. the club which qualifies on sporting merit for the most prestigious UEFA club competition (i.e., in descending order: UEFA Champions League, UEFA Europa League or UEFA Europa Conference League);
2. the club which was ranked highest in the domestic championship giving access to the relevant UEFA club competition;
3. the club whose association is ranked highest in the access list (see Annex A).

https://documents.uefa.com/r/Regulations-of-the-UEFA-Europa-League-2022/23/Article-5-Integrity-of-the-competition/multi-club-ownership-Online

I think this was answered by @El Presidente in his latest podcast. I think he said that UEFA allowed ownership so long as the second club interest was less than 30% ownership. (and 10% for two premier league clubs).

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

In addition to the Red Bull clubs UEFA also investigated Chelsea and CSKA Moscow about 20 years ago when Roman Abramovich owned both clubs and found no conflict of interest then either. Although it’s entirely possible a brown envelope or two passed hands and Roman sold his controlling interest in the company that owned CSKA a couple of years later.

Also this season we have PSG in the Champions League and Braga were in the Europa League (now are in the playoffs for the Conference after finishing 3rd in their group) both are owned by Qatari Sports Investments, although in the case of Braga they don’t own more than 30% of the club.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I think this was answered by @El Presidente in his latest podcast. I think he said that UEFA allowed ownership so long as the second club interest was less than 30% ownership. (and 10% for two premier league clubs).

When Bloom bought USG he was described as the 'majority shareholder' - has that changed?

 

[Da Man Clay]

Bloom would have foreseen the chances of this particular issue. It is basically inconceivable given our direction of travel and intentions it wouldn’t have been considered before him taking over USG. Nothing to worry about here.