Why you should try to avoid shopping at Amazon

[Nibble]

Legislation is not a replacement for economic prospority. You can't just make everything better by forcing companies to pay £10/hour to everyone, they will just (1) raise their own prices to protect their profits and (2) lay people off in accordance with however many fewer goods they sell as a result of the higher prices.

You can print and give everyone in the country £1 million, it would make them millionaires but it wouldn't make them any better off than they were before.

I see what you think you mean, but you are quite wrong. It's not equivalent to printing money as you are employing people. No-one is printing out ten pound notes every hour. This comes out of the companies income. Simple. It's not newly minted money is it. These people who pay taxes, income tax, who spend money on other goods and services. The fact that you pay them a decent minimum wage only means more goes back to the economy in the end. It is redistribution of wealth in it's purest form.

If a company cannot afford to pay it's staff a decent wage they shouldn't be operating. The £10 mw would get shot of a lot of companies that are a burden. Companies like Amazon wouldn't forclose, believe me.

The taxpayer and welfare state wouldn't have to pay WTC and othe rbenefits either.

No, there is simply no argument against raising minimum wage that holds water.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Legislation is not a replacement for economic prospority. You can't just make everything better by forcing companies to pay £10/hour to everyone, they will just (1) raise their own prices to protect their profits and (2) lay people off in accordance with however many fewer goods they sell as a result of the higher prices.

As I pointed out earlier this was the argument which was used when the minimum wage first came in. And it was unproven. The only force is that businesses will be forced to be more efficient and smarter and maybe the shareholders will get a bit less. No price increase necessary, no big deal and surely the former items this should be encouraged? And if workers are getting more then there will be more spending so more sales going around. Germany has just agreed to introduce a minimum wage; want to bet their economy will collapse as you suggest?

I'm sorry but you argument is quite lazy and does not have any evidence to support it.

 

[Muzzy]

Why do you keep mentioning people wanting to better themselves via work? The world will always need people to do unskilled work and to me they are jobs which are just as valid. Some people simply want to do a shift and go home; nothing wrong with this at all. If everyone was chasing the dream we'd be ****ed as it is physically impossible for everyone to have everything. But just because people are not actively pursuing a life of Jamie Oliver cookery books in a Barrett Homes semi it does not imply they should be shat on financially. If you want a member of staff in an unskilled position to do a good job and be loyal to you pay them a decent salary, give them some security and be nice to them.

Absolutely this!

I do use Amazon as well as other online retailers, and due to the price of the items being sold cheaper than our own High Street stores I will continue to carry on doing so. It's human nature to save money and that's not going to alter in the near future.

However, this will ultimately put people out of work because these High Street stores are disappearing before our very eyes. I give it 20 years max and there won't be any High street stores remaining even in larger towns and cities. Lewes is an absolute joke of a town to shop in nowadays so we have to shop online or travel away. You can't even buy underwear here anymore! The going rate for renting a shop isn't financially viable, so the town is dying a slow and painful death. Unless you want a 'posh' coffee and then buy some 2nd hand clothes then forget it.

Amazon may not be around forever but someone else will take over when they have gone.

 

[Nibble]

Unskilled jobs are just as important as highly skilled jobs, absolutely. We need people in all levels of work or the country wouldn't function. But if everyone earned the absolute minimum of £250 a week after tax, rent, bills and a bit of savings then the proportion of people doing unskilled work would be far too high for us to prosper as a country. I'd immediately quit my job and do something with no stress, for a start!

It would become the norm. People will always strive for more interesting work. I wouldn't be happy doing some menial labour job for the rest of my life thanks even if i did have 250 in my wallet each week. You would likely find the distribution of skilled and un-skilled workers would remain the same as it is now. Stop judging people by your own standards. People like to be interested at work too. Not everyone would suddenly drop everything and go and make palettes for a living

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Unskilled jobs are just as important as highly skilled jobs, absolutely. We need people in all levels of work or the country wouldn't function. But if everyone earned the absolute minimum of £250 a week after tax, rent, bills and a bit of savings then the proportion of people doing unskilled work would be far too high for us to prosper as a country. I'd immediately quit my job and do something with no stress, for a start!

You seem to be implying that increasing the minimum wage will lead to a higher proportion of unskilled jobs? I do not feel this will happen. It will just be the same proportion of skilled/unskilled but with more money at the lower end.

 

[beorhthelm]

you shouldnt worry about this too much, in a few years they'll have robots doing all the picking. problems solved.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Legislation is not a replacement for economic prospority. You can't just make everything better by forcing companies to pay £10/hour to everyone, they will just (1) raise their own prices to protect their profits and (2) lay people off in accordance with however many fewer goods they sell as a result of the higher prices.

You can print and give everyone in the country £1 million, it would make them millionaires but it wouldn't make them any better off than they were before.

As HT and Nibble point out this is nonsense. This was argued before minimum wage came in and it never happened.

Paying a living wage will create a proper incentive to people to get off benefits and reduce the tax credit burden on the country. It would see the best, most innovative and most profitable companies rise to the top while the extra spending on wages in the public sector would be offset by increased tax revenue (not rates) and less benefits spending.The good, innovative and profitable companies would be able to keep supply up with the increased demand keeping a cap on inflation. The property market might even stabilise as people realise that houses were to live in rather than to treat as some kind of giant, repulsive game of monopoly.

 

[Nibble]

It's quite telling, when you think about it, that people don't think it's odd shelling out 70% of one's income on tax, rent/mortgage,rates, council tax but to suggest that life would be better if we maybe got this down to 60% or god forbid 50% and had more income to fulfill ambitions, personal goals, spend time with family, ENJOY ourselves it would somehow mean the collapse of western civilisation.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As HT and Nibble point out this is nonsense. This was argued before minimum wage came in and it never happened.

Paying a living wage will create a proper incentive to people to get off benefits and reduce the tax credit burden on the country. It would see the best, most innovative and most profitable companies rise to the top while the extra spending on wages in the public sector would be offset by increased tax revenue (not rates) and less benefits spending.The good, innovative and profitable companies would be able to keep supply up with the increased demand keeping a cap on inflation. The property market might even stabilise as people realise that houses were to live in rather than to treat as some kind of giant, repulsive game of monopoly.

Very much this.

 

[Nibble]

As HT and Nibble point out this is nonsense. This was argued before minimum wage came in and it never happened.

Paying a living wage will create a proper incentive to people to get off benefits and reduce the tax credit burden on the country. It would see the best, most innovative and most profitable companies rise to the top while the extra spending on wages in the public sector would be offset by increased tax revenue (not rates) and less benefits spending.The good, innovative and profitable companies would be able to keep supply up with the increased demand keeping a cap on inflation. The property market might even stabilise as people realise that houses were to live in rather than to treat as some kind of giant, repulsive game of monopoly.

Spot on.

 

[Johnnyboy]

The tax credit is an indirect acknowledgement from the government and business that the minimum wage is too low. Scrap it but ensure the workers still get the same amount by raising the minimum wage. And if a business cannot sustain this then as I mentioned earlier it is unsustainable and unviable. Just like you cannot run a business if your rent is too high you cannot run a business paying people a rate which they cannot live on.

I agree with this part of your statement but I also think if the minimum wage was increased beyond the limit for tax credits then the unsustainable businesses would go to the wall and the fiscal cost to the government would increase dramatically.

 

[Skint Gull]

Do people really think business' that pay staff minimum wage shouldn't be operating and the country would be in a better position if they cut their staffing? Seriously?

We don't pay all of our staff £10 p/h but all are above minimum wage. If the government decided this was to be the new minimum quite simply i and many a similar company wouldn't bother trying to expand our business as there just simply wouldn't be enough profit to be worth the extra stress involved with the extra turnover! I'd like to think my staff are all happy with us but of they believe they can earn better with better conditions good luck to them.

And Nibble, if you think seriously that EVERYONE has a god given right to the sort of WEEKLY luxuries you have listed you are living on another planet...

 

[1066familyman]

As HT and Nibble point out this is nonsense. This was argued before minimum wage came in and it never happened.

Paying a living wage will create a proper incentive to people to get off benefits and reduce the tax credit burden on the country. It would see the best, most innovative and most profitable companies rise to the top while the extra spending on wages in the public sector would be offset by increased tax revenue (not rates) and less benefits spending.The good, innovative and profitable companies would be able to keep supply up with the increased demand keeping a cap on inflation. The property market might even stabilise as people realise that houses were to live in rather than to treat as some kind of giant, repulsive game of monopoly.

The whole world is run like a giant monopoly game, and it always is repulsive.

Anyway, must dash, got to check to see how economic growth is getting on.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I need to shower and go and drink some beer now. I will ask one question. Is this what people really want? I mean, do you really want a nation where we are happy for people to earn a wage which cannot support them? Happy to let huge antiquated and lumbering companies screw everyone and get in the way of others who have better ideas, smarter ways of working and better products but cannot get a foot in the door as they have to pay corporation tax? I have to believe there is a better way as currently it is total and utter shit. I simply do not accept the fact 'this' is the only way.

 

[Nibble]

Do people really think business' that pay staff minimum wage shouldn't be operating and the country would be in a better position if they cut their staffing? Seriously?

We don't pay all of our staff £10 p/h but all are above minimum wage. If the government decided this was to be the new minimum quite simply i and many a similar company wouldn't bother trying to expand our business as there just simply wouldn't be enough profit to be worth the extra stress involved with the extra turnover! I'd like to think my staff are all happy with us but of they believe they can earn better with better conditions good luck to them.
And Nibble, if you think seriously that EVERYONE has a god given right to the sort of WEEKLY luxuries you have listed you are living on another planet...

Oh The DRAMA! I never said it was a God given right. You would have to earn it. Couple of meals and a takeaway luxuries? What planet are you living on? The merest suggestion of someobody having a nicer life outside of work has an odd reaction. A thousand pound a month to spend as you wish, not that much really. Chicken feed to some.

I bet a lot more people than you think spend that without even realising it:

Tank of petrol to visit the in-laws once a month
Bacon sarnie here and there
Coffee
few pints
New top
football
cinema
I bet many more people spend way more than they realise. It's why so many people are in straits, they don't know what they are spending.



On a rational note, I'm sure you pay and treat your staff well but of course you are going to be against higher wages, you are a business owner.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

PS I'm feeling quite proud of the fact I have only 2 'in Germany....' s

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Lewes is an absolute joke of a town to shop in nowadays so we have to shop online or travel away. You can't even buy underwear here anymore! The going rate for renting a shop isn't financially viable, so the town is dying a slow and painful death. Unless you want a 'posh' coffee and then buy some 2nd hand clothes then forget it.

eBay will soon put an end to that.

 

[Stat Brother]

It's funny how completely opposite Amazon is to one of it's subsidiaries, Royal Mail.

I was talking to a colleague who couldn't believe the Amazon way of working.
'If you get 3 points you're sacked', I replied 'that's the real world'.

'Late 1/2 point' - RM we seem to be able to stroll in when we want.
'Sick 1 point' - RM we've had our sick entitlement halved to only 8 months before the slate is wiped clean again.
'Standards of workrate need to be maintained' - RM we just say 'oh there's too much work I'm not taking x'. Or, stay out for guaranteed overtime.

The list goes on and on

Somewhere between the two there's a great company to work for.

 

[Nibble]

The working class are treated like rats, made to compete with each other for little scraps of food. There is enough wealth in the world for all people to live comfortably, the working class could live with the same dignity and freedom as anyone else - but that is not in the interests of governments and corporations whose only interest is profit, to make investors and shareholders even richer for doing virtually nothing.

Correct, Unfrtunately.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

It appears there is very few business people frequenting this thread. Or economists come to that.