[Albion] Why is the Albion on the front page of the Argus tomorrow ?

[Seasidesage]

If the club fell out with the police, which this could be construed at, presumably the police could stop the albion playing at all couldn't they?

Huddlesfield did

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Is it a good idea to criticise the police publically in the paper?

Hopefully this is now the end of it as far as the albion is concerned and the dust settles.

Would be good if the next news is of 'doors being kicked in' and arrests and bans for using explosive firecrackers in a stadium.

 

[chaileyjem]

The full letter from Barber was rashly promised in that article somewhere else in the paper (probably p10-p94)

Anyone have it ?

 

[Giraffe]

Hopefully this is now the end of it as far as the albion is concerned and the dust settles.

Would be good if the next news is of 'doors being kicked in' and arrests and bans for using explosive firecrackers in a stadium.

Indeed. So two weeks on and no arrests yet?

 

[chaileyjem]

Indeed. So two weeks on and no arrests yet?

6 arrests were made after. more are expected.
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1569...nnection_with_Albion_vs_Crystal_Palace_derby/

 

[Bozza]

The full letter from Barber was rashly promised in that article somewhere else in the paper (probably p10-p94)

Anyone have it ?

I had it sent to me last night. It seems an important thing to share so I’ll put it here and remove it if asked to do so:

Mr Guile has asserted (The Argus, 6 December 2017) that Crystal Palace supporters should not receive tickets for the FA Cup match in January. Sadly, it isn’t as simple as this. A number of the individuals (from both sides) that caused trouble in the city and outside the stadium didn’t have tickets to last week’s game, so banning visiting supporters from receiving tickets doesn’t necessarily prevent disorder. And what of the away fans who came to watch the match and caused no trouble at all?

Contrary to Mr Guile’s suggestion, Brighton & Hove Albion would much prefer to be in a position to grant Crystal Palace supporters their full ticket allocation. It would make for a better atmosphere in the stadium and, from a business point of view, it would likely lead to a bigger overall attendance at the match, and increase revenue for the club. Sadly, given the mindless behaviour of a minority outside the stadium during our last meeting, granting a full allocation of tickets to our visitors simply isn’t possible and the Safety Advisory Group are once again likely to set a limit of approximately 2000 - the number agreed for away fans at BOTH league fixtures (and, now, any potential FA Cup replay).

There’s been a huge amount of rhetoric leading up to and since the match, and a range of claims and counter-claims, including from many who didn’t attend the match or who have chosen to comment without checking the facts, but let’s not lose sight of the reason for the restriction on tickets, and the root of the problem: the mindless minority who seek to cause trouble - both at the recent fixture, and on occasions in the past. Nobody else.

I am genuinely very sorry that due to the actions of these tiny factions, those individuals who chose to disregard the law, a large number of away supporters of both clubs will miss the opportunity to support their teams across the fixtures between the clubs both at the Amex and Selhurst Park this season.

It is also very disappointing that in the immediate aftermath of the league meeting between the clubs much of the disorder has been misrepresented, not least on social media. Yes, there was some serious disorder outside the stadium and in areas of the city, and it did lead to a number of injuries to stewards and police - as well as to some entirely innocent fans, with tickets, missing some or all of the match, as a direct result of the disorder. But it is extremely disappointing and entirely wrong that our club’s integrity or actions have been called into question as a result, and that the reputation of Crystal Palace and their supporters has been further tarnished as a result.

To be clear, the original Sussex Police statement on fan-related disturbances was released without our approval - but we trusted it and took it at face value. However, when we learned of the inaccuracies contained within the statement, we drew them to the attention of Sussex Police immediately. We have since made very clear, and in the strongest possible terms, our extreme disappointment with various communications from Sussex Police leading up to, immediately after, and since Crystal Palace’s visit to the Amex. These protests led to Sussex Police issuing a clarifying statement late on Thursday afternoon. We have previously enjoyed an excellent relationship with Sussex Police and we hope that valuable lessons have been learned from this unfortunate sequence of events.

With regard to the timing of the FA Cup match, now the subject to even greater scrutiny as a result of the events outlined above, both Brighton & Hove Albion and Crystal Palace are committed to a contractual agreement with The FA, as competition organiser, and its broadcast partners when it comes to matches being selected for live TV - unless the police or our Safety Advisory Group object, which neither did. That is because the Monday evening slot is the best option available over the third round weekend, due to engineering works and rail replacement services between London and Brighton across that weekend.

It is common knowledge that our stadium travel management plan relies on a large number of public transport services, as part of planning permission for the stadium, but we have hosted matches in similar or worse situations.

However, given the enhanced profile of this fixture, and the potential flash points as a result, without rail services available to get supporters of both clubs in and out of the stadium, this would have further added to the challenges already being faced. Yes, with a full rail service, a Sunday morning or lunchtime kick-off would have been the preferred option, but without that option it is clear that the Monday night, with live TV coverage for those unable to secure a ticket, is the best option.

And, yes, of course in the absence of a special train service, buses would have been option for a weekend lunchtime fixture but it would have taken 40 or 50 large vehicles to move the same number of visiting fans that ONE train can carry. Another significant challenge when our car and coach parks will already be operating at their maximum levels.

Others have written on these pages, or been quoted elsewhere on social media, in the past week of their shock at how pyrotechnics were let off at the Amex. Our staff retrieved a large number of pyrotechnics from visiting supporters ahead of the match last Tuesday but, using a variety of means, some were still smuggled into the stadium and discharged. Unfortunately, these very loud pyrotechnics, many the size of a AAA battery, are extremely difficult to detect, even with a full body search and footwear removal, neither of which are feasible without extremely long delays for supporters.

Similarly, when such a small pyrotechnic is dropped to the floor or rolled below a crowd of several thousand people, it is difficult for stewards to eject, or even identify, offenders while the game is in progress. Attempting to remove individuals can also often create additional disorder, well beyond the impact of a loud bang or a smoke cloud - as disconcerting and disturbing as these effects undoubtedly are for many of those in the stadium. Instead, we use sophisticated technology to review crowd behaviour after the match to identify and trace offenders. And this is exactly what we have done.

Many will have an opinion on what should happen or should be done when people behave contrary to what we’ve come to expect at the Amex during more than six almost entirely trouble-free seasons. But crowd management within a football stadium holding 30,000 people is about careful and balanced judgements at critical times. Aside from the discharge of nine pyrotechnics in the visiting supporters’ area, there was no disorder inside the stadium. It was only necessary to lock a relatively small number of fans outside the stadium after the illegal entry of individuals who used pyrotechnics outside the stadium to create a distraction, nullify sniffer dogs, and storm a turnstile and exit gate after kick-off. Some of the fans illegally entering the stadium had tickets, some didn’t. Meanwhile, those fans locked out were prevented entry to the Amex to avoid any possible risk of over-crowding or further disorder inside the stadium. Again, some of those fans locked out had tickets, some didn’t.

Despite the undoubted inconvenience for some genuine fans with tickets, including some late arriving Albion fans to the South end of the stadium, having personally reviewed the CCTV footage, I am entirely satisfied that the decision to close the stadium gates to prevent further potential disorder and to protect those already inside the stadium was entirely the correct call by our safety officer, in very difficult circumstances, entirely backed by the police. Indeed, it is just one example of a number of the careful and balanced judgements, referred to above, that our staff, and the various agencies that support our match day operations, must make.

Again, despite some of the frustrating events since the night in question, let’s not lose sight of the cause of this: a small group of individuals with the specific aim of causing disorder at a football match. We have a number of clear CCTV and still images of the individuals responsible for various elements of disorder and we continue to work with Sussex Police, Metropolitan Police, and National Football Policing Unit to identify them. Crystal Palace have also offered their support with this work. We will be supplying police with a range of evidence to assist with prosecution for a range of criminal offences, and we will fully support any action they take in relation to the offences which have been identified.

We should all now be focused on a football match between great rivals on what is traditionally one of the most exciting weekends in the English football calendar. The date and time of the match, whether or not it’s live on TV, the size of the visiting support, how they travel - and even what they wear - should be entirely irrelevant. These sorts of issues and concerns should be consigned to the dim and distant past.

Sadly, thanks to a mindless few, they aren’t. But, let’s not forget, the vast majority of fans - from BOTH clubs - behaved impeccably last time out. So, for them, and for the live national TV audience we can now expect, let’s focus on a delivering a great match - and allow the football, not the mindless few, to make January’s headlines.

Paul Barber
Chief Executive

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

If the club fell out with the police, which this could be construed at, presumably the police could stop the albion playing at all couldn't they?

No, not without a very good reason, think of all the clubs in the UK and their various on-off relationships with the Police, let's just take West Yorkshire as an example?

 

[BNthree]

Who is JE ?

Thank goodness I wasn't the only one, but I was a bit too nervous to ask in case it was obvious.

 

[dazzer6666]

Thank goodness I wasn't the only one, but I was a bit too nervous to ask in case it was obvious.

Should have realised it was supposed to be JI I guess.....or our secret January 1 signing........

 

[Arthur]

Is it a good idea to criticise the police publically in the paper?

Why not? The police came out with a bare faced lie then tried to blame it on the club which in itself was crazy. Had the stewards at the ground found knives and knuckledusters then what would they have done with them? Handed them to the police surely.

The police dropped a bollock here and have tried to cover their arses which has only made the matter worse. But its done now, both clubs have had their say as have Sussex Police. We've got 4 weeks until the next game and its going to get very tedious if this story keeps on trucking until then. Sadly I think it will.

 

[hopkins]

I had it sent to me last night. It seems an important thing to share so I’ll put it here and remove it if asked to do so:

Mr Guile has asserted (The Argus, 6 December 2017) that Crystal Palace supporters should not receive tickets for the FA Cup match in January. Sadly, it isn’t as simple as this. A number of the individuals (from both sides) that caused trouble in the city and outside the stadium didn’t have tickets to last week’s game, so banning visiting supporters from receiving tickets doesn’t necessarily prevent disorder. And what of the away fans who came to watch the match and caused no trouble at all?

Contrary to Mr Guile’s suggestion, Brighton & Hove Albion would much prefer to be in a position to grant Crystal Palace supporters their full ticket allocation. It would make for a better atmosphere in the stadium and, from a business point of view, it would likely lead to a bigger overall attendance at the match, and increase revenue for the club. Sadly, given the mindless behaviour of a minority outside the stadium during our last meeting, granting a full allocation of tickets to our visitors simply isn’t possible and the Safety Advisory Group are once again likely to set a limit of approximately 2000 - the number agreed for away fans at BOTH league fixtures (and, now, any potential FA Cup replay).

There’s been a huge amount of rhetoric leading up to and since the match, and a range of claims and counter-claims, including from many who didn’t attend the match or who have chosen to comment without checking the facts, but let’s not lose sight of the reason for the restriction on tickets, and the root of the problem: the mindless minority who seek to cause trouble - both at the recent fixture, and on occasions in the past. Nobody else.

I am genuinely very sorry that due to the actions of these tiny factions, those individuals who chose to disregard the law, a large number of away supporters of both clubs will miss the opportunity to support their teams across the fixtures between the clubs both at the Amex and Selhurst Park this season.

It is also very disappointing that in the immediate aftermath of the league meeting between the clubs much of the disorder has been misrepresented, not least on social media. Yes, there was some serious disorder outside the stadium and in areas of the city, and it did lead to a number of injuries to stewards and police - as well as to some entirely innocent fans, with tickets, missing some or all of the match, as a direct result of the disorder. But it is extremely disappointing and entirely wrong that our club’s integrity or actions have been called into question as a result, and that the reputation of Crystal Palace and their supporters has been further tarnished as a result.

To be clear, the original Sussex Police statement on fan-related disturbances was released without our approval - but we trusted it and took it at face value. However, when we learned of the inaccuracies contained within the statement, we drew them to the attention of Sussex Police immediately. We have since made very clear, and in the strongest possible terms, our extreme disappointment with various communications from Sussex Police leading up to, immediately after, and since Crystal Palace’s visit to the Amex. These protests led to Sussex Police issuing a clarifying statement late on Thursday afternoon. We have previously enjoyed an excellent relationship with Sussex Police and we hope that valuable lessons have been learned from this unfortunate sequence of events.

With regard to the timing of the FA Cup match, now the subject to even greater scrutiny as a result of the events outlined above, both Brighton & Hove Albion and Crystal Palace are committed to a contractual agreement with The FA, as competition organiser, and its broadcast partners when it comes to matches being selected for live TV - unless the police or our Safety Advisory Group object, which neither did. That is because the Monday evening slot is the best option available over the third round weekend, due to engineering works and rail replacement services between London and Brighton across that weekend.

It is common knowledge that our stadium travel management plan relies on a large number of public transport services, as part of planning permission for the stadium, but we have hosted matches in similar or worse situations.

However, given the enhanced profile of this fixture, and the potential flash points as a result, without rail services available to get supporters of both clubs in and out of the stadium, this would have further added to the challenges already being faced. Yes, with a full rail service, a Sunday morning or lunchtime kick-off would have been the preferred option, but without that option it is clear that the Monday night, with live TV coverage for those unable to secure a ticket, is the best option.

And, yes, of course in the absence of a special train service, buses would have been option for a weekend lunchtime fixture but it would have taken 40 or 50 large vehicles to move the same number of visiting fans that ONE train can carry. Another significant challenge when our car and coach parks will already be operating at their maximum levels.

Others have written on these pages, or been quoted elsewhere on social media, in the past week of their shock at how pyrotechnics were let off at the Amex. Our staff retrieved a large number of pyrotechnics from visiting supporters ahead of the match last Tuesday but, using a variety of means, some were still smuggled into the stadium and discharged. Unfortunately, these very loud pyrotechnics, many the size of a AAA battery, are extremely difficult to detect, even with a full body search and footwear removal, neither of which are feasible without extremely long delays for supporters.

Similarly, when such a small pyrotechnic is dropped to the floor or rolled below a crowd of several thousand people, it is difficult for stewards to eject, or even identify, offenders while the game is in progress. Attempting to remove individuals can also often create additional disorder, well beyond the impact of a loud bang or a smoke cloud - as disconcerting and disturbing as these effects undoubtedly are for many of those in the stadium. Instead, we use sophisticated technology to review crowd behaviour after the match to identify and trace offenders. And this is exactly what we have done.

Many will have an opinion on what should happen or should be done when people behave contrary to what we’ve come to expect at the Amex during more than six almost entirely trouble-free seasons. But crowd management within a football stadium holding 30,000 people is about careful and balanced judgements at critical times. Aside from the discharge of nine pyrotechnics in the visiting supporters’ area, there was no disorder inside the stadium. It was only necessary to lock a relatively small number of fans outside the stadium after the illegal entry of individuals who used pyrotechnics outside the stadium to create a distraction, nullify sniffer dogs, and storm a turnstile and exit gate after kick-off. Some of the fans illegally entering the stadium had tickets, some didn’t. Meanwhile, those fans locked out were prevented entry to the Amex to avoid any possible risk of over-crowding or further disorder inside the stadium. Again, some of those fans locked out had tickets, some didn’t.

Despite the undoubted inconvenience for some genuine fans with tickets, including some late arriving Albion fans to the South end of the stadium, having personally reviewed the CCTV footage, I am entirely satisfied that the decision to close the stadium gates to prevent further potential disorder and to protect those already inside the stadium was entirely the correct call by our safety officer, in very difficult circumstances, entirely backed by the police. Indeed, it is just one example of a number of the careful and balanced judgements, referred to above, that our staff, and the various agencies that support our match day operations, must make.

Again, despite some of the frustrating events since the night in question, let’s not lose sight of the cause of this: a small group of individuals with the specific aim of causing disorder at a football match. We have a number of clear CCTV and still images of the individuals responsible for various elements of disorder and we continue to work with Sussex Police, Metropolitan Police, and National Football Policing Unit to identify them. Crystal Palace have also offered their support with this work. We will be supplying police with a range of evidence to assist with prosecution for a range of criminal offences, and we will fully support any action they take in relation to the offences which have been identified.

We should all now be focused on a football match between great rivals on what is traditionally one of the most exciting weekends in the English football calendar. The date and time of the match, whether or not it’s live on TV, the size of the visiting support, how they travel - and even what they wear - should be entirely irrelevant. These sorts of issues and concerns should be consigned to the dim and distant past.

Sadly, thanks to a mindless few, they aren’t. But, let’s not forget, the vast majority of fans - from BOTH clubs - behaved impeccably last time out. So, for them, and for the live national TV audience we can now expect, let’s focus on a delivering a great match - and allow the football, not the mindless few, to make January’s headlines.

Paul Barber
Chief Executive

Not reading all that .

 

[Hiney]

Not reading all that .

You should, it's a brilliant letter.

 

[portlock seagull]

Who is Mr Guile?

 

[Bozza]

Who is Mr Guile?

"The wide ranging letter was in response to a correspondence on our letters page last week by a Mr Guile, who called for Palace fans to be banned from the upcoming FA Cup clash on January 8."

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Who is Mr Guile?

A crafty fellow.

 

[portlock seagull]

"The wide ranging letter was in response to a correspondence on our letters page last week by a Mr Guile, who called for Palace fans to be banned from the upcoming FA Cup clash on January 8."

Someone to do with authorities? Or just joe public?

 

[BNthree]

Someone to do with authorities? Or just joe public?

Joe Public. He wrote to Argus saying Palace shouldn't be allowed any fans at the FA Cup match and had his letter published on the Letters page.

 

[rippleman]

Is it a good idea to criticise the police publically in the paper?

Absolutely it is.

Police Fabrication. Police Lies. Police Cover-up

27 years on and they seem to have learned nothing.

 

[Winker]

I was lead to believe that it was all down to a simple misunderstanding. What the police actually reported was that 'There were a large number of fishwives and knuckle-draggers' amongst the Palace fans' and it all kicked off.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

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