Why is it France, Germany, Italy and Portugal are better?

[BigGully]

Many reasons, I guess

When I watch local football with say under 8's its more like cage fighting than football !!

Not much advice given just a crazy Mum's and Dad's shouting 'get in there'.

Undoubtedly too many foreigners in the Premiership, whereas it could be argued that France/Brazil have all their best players stripped away to bigger Leagues in Europe giving constant opportunities to another generation of players that otherwise might not of been given a chance. Conveyerbelt of talent.

Maybe we are ignoring some of our strengths such as passion, tempo, courage while we try to replicate a watered down version of the European Way.

 

[The Large One]

I'm not sure that, man-for-man, those countries listed above are better than us. For every player mentioned, England can name a player in that poisition who, while not neceassrily matching them class-for-class, would not be doing a bad job if they were their deputy. I think foreign press and foreign managers rate our players higher than we do.

What the others do have, however, is a better structure in place to capitalise on what talent there is.

Point in case, Jurgen Klinsman turned an extremely mediocre German side (and mediocre is generous) and got them playing to their maximum and it got them to the semi-final - even if it was on home soil.

The culture in Italy is different, and the players have a different attitude to playing for their national side compared to their club side. And it's not as though they went through at a canter.

I agree when the FA say that they need a root and branch look at how the national side operates. What worries me is are they going to ask the right people the right questions and act on it appropriately. History has dictated that the FA are not particularly good at that sort of thing. But there's a first time for everything.

 

[Gazwag]

France, Germany, Italy, Portugal

Are you not forgetting Greece & Turkey, teams we were regularly beating 5, 6, 7 nil before the Premiership and there is the answer I believe, we are now seeing the full effect of the premiership which has killed off any hope we have of ever being a world force in football

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

One area is technique. Croatia looked much better on the ball than Enlgand. They could trap it, control it and keep possession. France, Germany and Italy are all miles ahead of England when it comes to this, what I thought, was a prerequisite for a footballer.

Add to this a total lack of artistry and imagination alligned with a 'hard work is better than craft and guile' attitude and you have the current shower of shit that is England.

We are decades away from winning a major tournament.

 

[nwgull]

France, Germany, Italy, Portugal

Are you not forgetting Greece & Turkey, teams we were regularly beating 5, 6, 7 nil before the Premiership and there is the answer I believe, we are now seeing the full effect of the premiership which has killed off any hope we have of ever being a world force in football

us beating Greece and Turkey easily in the past has more to do with the fact that they were both shit up until about 2000 and 2004 respectively.

 

[Gazwag]

us beating Greece and Turkey easily in the past has more to do with the fact that they were both shit up until about 2000 and 2004 respectively.

So why are they so much better nowadays, it hardly their set up which cant have improved much over the last 20 years, its the fact the we have replaced them as Europe's joke team

 

[nwgull]

So why are they so much better nowadays, it hardly their set up which cant have improved much over the last 20 years, its the fact the we have replaced them as Europe's joke team

they aren't that much better, Turkey had a good team in 2002 but did not qualify for 2004 or 2006, Greece also failed to qualify for 2006.

put things in perspective, it's the first time we've missed out on a tournament for 14 years.

 

[Scoffers]

If we had won against Germany in 90 or 96 (we were one shot or an outstretched leg from Gazza away from doing so) we probably would have won a tournament. So the difference between us actually winning something in our living mememory is perhaps luck.

At the moment though, we just don't have the players. Simple as.

Well, I'd like to qualify that, we just don't have the players to Win major Tournaments, but we CERTAINLY have the players available to at least QUALIFY for the tournaments. The reason we haven't ? McLaren, Who Appointed McLaren ? The FA

 

[Dublin_Seagull]

Its a simple answer. They give a f*** about thier national pride and their country shirt on thier backs

 

[Dave the OAP]

I'm not sure that, man-for-man, those countries listed above are better than us. For every player mentioned, England can name a player in that poisition who, while not neceassrily matching them class-for-class, would not be doing a bad job if they were their deputy. I think foreign press and foreign managers rate our players higher than we do.

What the others do have, however, is a better structure in place to capitalise on what talent there is.

Point in case, Jurgen Klinsman turned an extremely mediocre German side (and mediocre is generous) and got them playing to their maximum and it got them to the semi-final - even if it was on home soil.

The culture in Italy is different, and the players have a different attitude to playing for their national side compared to their club side. And it's not as though they went through at a canter.

I agree when the FA say that they need a root and branch look at how the national side operates. What worries me is are they going to ask the right people the right questions and act on it appropriately. History has dictated that the FA are not particularly good at that sort of thing. But there's a first time for everything.

Really

name one of our players who would get in the Italian side ( replacing a current player)...or France for that matter, or Germany, or Holland............

Our players look good because they are surrounded by world class players.

I think the situation at arsenal is the real eye openor. Arsne Wenger does not believe one Englaish player is currently good enough to play in his starting X1.....that is it for me

 

[The Large One]

So why are they so much better nowadays, it hardly their set up which cant have improved much over the last 20 years, its the fact the we have replaced them as Europe's joke team

Actually, it has.

They have taken their lead from the likes of England, France, Italy, Spain etc. and built their coaching model on these countries. That, plus free movement of players means that their best players are getting better experience of playing in better leagues, and it is rubbing off.

It's not only England who don't beat these countries by cricket scores any more. Look at Euro 2004, Greece beat Portugal (twice), France, Czech Republic, drew with Spain...

 

[beorhthelm]

Portugal Spain and Holland are better than us technically, talent wise and basically in all areas! wake up and smell the coffee

er, i as rather thinking in terms of silverware collected. those countries follow exactly the same pattern as us, they are supposed to be great players but there's little to show for it.

At club level, our players are some of the most well paid in the world and their clubs wont let them go anyway else. half the England players last night, on club form, could play abroad if the money didnt keep them here. but that doesnt get transfered to the national game. isnt that the problem, along with a lack of depth?

 

[Simster]

I think the situation at arsenal is the real eye openor. Arsne Wenger does not believe one Englaish player is currently good enough to play in his starting X1.....that is it for me

Sort of true - it's more that he believes English players are overvalued. And he's right.

 

[The Large One]

Really

name one of our players who would get in the Italian side ( replacing a current player)...or France for that matter, or Germany, or Holland............

Our players look good because they are surrounded by world class players.

I think the situation at arsenal is the real eye openor. Arsne Wenger does not believe one Englaish player is currently good enough to play in his starting X1.....that is it for me

Rooney, on his day would get into any of those sides (the Brazilian coach went so far to say he would love to have him in his side). Utter gimp off the pitch he might be, I'm struggling to think of many better left-backs than Ashley Cole. Steven Gerard has been chased by Italian and Spanish clubs. Michael Owen, on his day, would be playing for most sides. Who do Italy have in the same position? Luca Toni, a one-trick pony with an excellent scoring record - a bit like Michael Owen. And who wouldn't still like to have Beckham about?

Like I said, this is assuming these players play to their potential.

If our players are made to look good because they have decent foreigners alongside them, how come we don't have far more players challenging for England places? They have to have a certain amount of talent in the first place in order to be made to look good, otherwise we'd have Kevin Nolan or (if he was English) Robbie Savage playing for England.

Granted, I'm only talking about five or six players here, but then France, Italy and Germany have the same amount of high-calibre players. Really. Are you really saying that, man-for-man, those countries all have a player in each position better than our own?

I feel you're implying that these other countries have a wealth of world-class players to choose from. For me, I don't think they do. 'World-class' is an over-used statement to describe a decent player who can do a job. I'd say there are only half a dozen or so players you could list as 'world-class', and hardly any are European.

What these countries do have is better organisation and commitment to the national cause. Our players are far from shit, they just need someone or something in place to harness their qualities.

All of these countries are beatable. Northern Ireland beat Spain. Scotland beat France - twice - in the qualifiers. Were they a fluke? Or were France not up to the task? Of course, man-for-man France are better, but it's no good if they don't go and prove it. And this is the central problem with England's malaise. Why is this? There could be one reason - there could be 20. It's a bastard minefield to get through.

I know that France and Spain ultimately qualified, and we didn't, but there was a time when, for France, it was out of their hands. they took advantage, and we didn't. I feel England's problem is more mental than physical or technical. There is not the drive, the ambition nor the incentive to have a successful England side based on the current set-up of the Premiership, nor more specifically, its finances.

I take your point about Arsene Wenger, and fair play to him, but Alex Ferguson doesn't seem to share quite the same level of reservation. So whose opinion do you go with?

 

[Rambo]

I feel England's problem is more mental than physical or technical. There is not the drive, the ambition nor the incentive to have a successful England side based on the current set-up of the Premiership, nor more specifically, its finances.
QUOTE]



Spot on, It has to be the motivation of the team - leadership, we have had a weak manager and a weak captain (Gerrard last night), we need srtonger passion and fight, and that comes from leadership.

Which is why although Coppell is an excellant tactician, he is not right for England as that is not the issue. We need a passionate strong leader, on and off the pitch.

Who that is? f*** knows!

 

[Dave the OAP]

Granted, I'm only talking about five or six players here, but then France, Italy and Germany have the same amount of high-calibre players. Really. Are you really saying that, man-for-man, those countries all have a player in each position better than our own??

Yes I am....I have watched the Italian team on and off and based on what we have seen the last few games, I wouldnt even think Rooney would get into their side. Luca Toni is a class act....he would walk into any of our teams. If the likes of Rooney and Gerrard and lampard were that good, top teams in Europe would break the bank to get them....only Beckham has tempted the top sides.


?[/QUOTE]I take your point about Arsene Wenger, and fair play to him, but Alex Ferguson doesn't seem to share quite the same level of reservation. So whose opinion do you go with?[/QUOTE]

Arsens every time.

the last few purchases Fergie has made have been Dani and Andersen.

 

[Wozza]

Because they have more players with top-level experience, and therefore more strength in depth.

 

[¤DãŃn¥ §êãGüLL¤]

I really believe our squad would benefit if more of our players plied their trade abroad. Who are three of our best players at the moment - Beckham, Owen and Hargreaves.

 

[Albion Dan]

All this standard of players is a red herring, we easily have the quality of player to win tournaments. Is everyone forgetting that Greece won the last Euro tournament? We fall down through bad management, and failing to play well as a team. Its like 11 strangers on the pitch at times when you watch England.

Look at some of the best talent in the Premiership and La Liga, Torres, Fabregas, Alonso, Xavi, Daivid Villa, Iniesta etc etc. Now look at the Spanish national side, you can hardly say those boys cant control the ball but they have exactly the same problem as England, they dont play as a team and hence always underachieve.

 

[Deductions]

England cant keep the ball, its really that simple.