[Albion] Why is Dunk consistently overlooked by England?

[Triggaaar]

Something else I've often thought is that if you are a defender or goalkeeper playing for a smaller club, surely you are going to be a lot busier, and therefore better suited to playing for a team like England, where you are likely to have more to do when playing against the top teams? More so than being a defender or keeper for Liverpool or Man City where you don't get attacked that much?

The goalkeepers will certainly get more practice, but then I guess there could be an argument for a keeper that has to watch a lot of the match, yet maintain concentration and perform when the opponents get the odd chance. And defenders will get more practice defending in a weaker team, but I can also see that argument for defenders who are more used to pushing forward in a good team (if that's what the manger wants). I don't know, I can see valid points either way.

I cannot see the logic in picking someone who's not as good though. I think the reason I'm struggling to see the logic, is because there bloody isn't any.

 

[Commander]

The goalkeepers will certainly get more practice, but then I guess there could be an argument for a keeper that has to watch a lot of the match, yet maintain concentration and perform when the opponents get the odd chance. And defenders will get more practice defending in a weaker team, but I can also see that argument for defenders who are more used to pushing forward in a good team (if that's what the manger wants). I don't know, I can see valid points either way.

I cannot see the logic in picking someone who's not as good though. I think the reason I'm struggling to see the logic, is because there bloody isn't any.

I guess the logic is that players for big teams are more used to dealing with big pressure. But one of the good things Southgate seems to have done is remove that pressure on players playing for England, and got them to play without the burden of it. So while there was perhaps some logic in it some time ago, there isn’t anymore. And it’s even more bizarre when he spent his entire career playing for smaller clubs!

Maybe that’s why he missed his pen in Euro 96, because he wasn’t used to the pressure.

 

[Megazone]

I guess the logic is that players for big teams are more used to dealing with big pressure. But one of the good things Southgate seems to have done is remove that pressure on players playing for England, and got them to play without the burden of it. So while there was perhaps some logic in it some time ago, there isn’t anymore. And it’s even more bizarre when he spent his entire career playing for smaller clubs!

Maybe that’s why he missed his pen in Euro 96, because he wasn’t used to the pressure.

He missed the pen because he's a player who probably hd no more than a handful of shots throughout his whole career plus he was a bit shit.

 

[A1X]

He missed the pen because he's a player who probably hd no more than a handful of shots throughout his whole career plus he was a bit shit.

The REAL villains of that piece were the more experienced or forward players (e.g. Steve McManaman / Paul Ince) who bottled it.

 

[Stat Brother]

The REAL villains of that piece were the more experienced or forward players (e.g. Steve McManaman / Paul Ince) who bottled it.

Abso-f**king-lutely.

Paul The Govnor Ince, what an complete ****.

All his bollox about shirt on last, intimidating opposition, 'dont you know who I am' shitehouseary.

Then when it's actually time for him to step up, where is he?



Oh that's right sat on the centre spot facing the wrong way.

F**king cowardly little shitstick w**ksplat of a nothing.





Knob.

 

[Bold Seagull]

He missed the pen because he's a player who probably hd no more than a handful of shots throughout his whole career plus he was a bit shit.

He could strike the odd ball.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Abso-f**king-lutely.

Paul The Govnor Ince, what an complete ****.

All his bollox about shirt on last, intimidating opposition, 'dont you know who I am' shitehouseary.

Then when it's actually time for him to step up, where is he?



Oh that's right sat on the centre spot facing the wrong way.

F**king cowardly little shitstick w**ksplat of a nothing.





Knob.

Damn straight. Bottling ****!

 

[pasty]

Abso-f**king-lutely.

Paul The Govnor Ince, what an complete ****.

All his bollox about shirt on last, intimidating opposition, 'dont you know who I am' shitehouseary.

Then when it's actually time for him to step up, where is he?



Oh that's right sat on the centre spot facing the wrong way.

F**king cowardly little shitstick w**ksplat of a nothing.





Knob.

Not a fan then?

 

[Triggaaar]

I guess the logic is that players for big teams are more used to dealing with big pressure.

I know you're playing devils advocate, trying to think of his point of view, but it just make sense to me. As well as the fact that players in lower teams deal with the pressure of relegation battles etc, and having to beat the odds when up against big teams, the fact is that there's no evidence (in the cases we're discussing) that they can't handle the pressure, and the way to find out is to play them in the national team.

Maybe that’s why he missed his pen in Euro 96, because he wasn’t used to the pressure.

Although I completely disagree with his selection policy, the kind of pressure you face when taking penalties for your country (and not being a regular penalty taker) is something most pros aren't used to.

 

[Stat Brother]

Not a fan then?

Live and let live, let bygones be bygones - that's what I say...












...unless we're talking about coward Ince.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Even Villa fans admit that Mings has at least one major mistake per match in him. But he fits the sort of profile that gives Southgate kudos with certain sections of the national press.

It concerns me that Southgate picks people for England who remind him of himself as a player - personable, no trouble, diligent, no raw edges. I'm not saying that Dunk isn't those things, but I think Southgate prefers followers to leaders.

 

[spring hall convert]

Southgates done well overall of course. But he seems to have a blind spot when it comes to picking CB's. Which is surprising given that he was one himself.

I'm not sure it is. He seems to place too much value (in my eyes anyway) on Centre Backs that can play a bit. IIRC for his time Southgate was pretty cultured.

 

[Easy 10]

I'm not sure it is. He seems to place too much value (in my eyes anyway) on Centre Backs that can play a bit. IIRC for his time Southgate was pretty cultured.

Well I'd certainly put Dunk in the 'Centre Backs that can play a bit' bracket. If we were talking about an english version of Duffy then I'd understand him being passed over. But for me, Dunk ticks all the boxes.

Can confidently bring the ball out
Can pick a pass, be it a hollywood jobbie out to the wing, or a slide-rule through the middle
Good in the air, rarely gets outmuscled or bullied
Positionally sound
Committed and brave, gets his blocks in
Takes responsibility
Has all but eradicated those costly careless errors that blighted the earlier part of his career.

OK I'm open be being accused of being biased, but I would genuinely not swap him for pretty much any of the CB's who enjoy regular caps under Southgate, often when they're barely featuring for their club sides! (Stones/Gomez). If he's not a starter, he 100% deserves to be in the squad - and there's only ONE reason that he isn't...

He plays for BHA.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Abso-f**king-lutely.

Paul The Govnor Ince, what an complete ****.

All his bollox about shirt on last, intimidating opposition, 'dont you know who I am' shitehouseary.

Then when it's actually time for him to step up, where is he?



Oh that's right sat on the centre spot facing the wrong way.

F**king cowardly little shitstick w**ksplat of a nothing.





Knob.

Did he actually bottle it?

Or did THEY refuse to let him take one, because he is BLACK?

 

[aolstudios]

Even Villa fans admit that Mings has at least one major mistake per match in him. But he fits the sort of profile that gives Southgate kudos with certain sections of the national press.

It concerns me that Southgate picks people for England who remind him of himself as a player - personable, no trouble, diligent, no raw edges. I'm not saying that Dunk isn't those things, but I think Southgate prefers followers to leaders.

Spot on

 

[Ninja Elephant]

There is no footballing justification for Lewis Dunk not being in the squad - that's the reality. You look at the players who are being picked ahead of him, and none of them are as good as Dunk. Stones is THE single most hilariously overrated player England have produced (except perhaps Lingard, but I feel like most people spotted he was a fraud at least 5 years ago, the Stones penny has only more recently dropped). Gomez is very good, but he hasn't got the experience Dunk has. Maguire is a slab, he's comically overrated but at least he's guaranteed to play every game. Dunk should be in the squad without any question, and I have no doubt he'd prove himself to be far better than his rivals for a spot in the team if given the chance. Mings shouldn't be anywhere near the squad.

 

[Easy 10]

There is no footballing justification for Lewis Dunk not being in the squad - that's the reality. You look at the players who are being picked ahead of him, and none of them are as good as Dunk. Stones is THE single most hilariously overrated player England have produced (except perhaps Lingard, but I feel like most people spotted he was a fraud at least 5 years ago, the Stones penny has only more recently dropped). Gomez is very good, but he hasn't got the experience Dunk has. Maguire is a slab, he's comically overrated but at least he's guaranteed to play every game. Dunk should be in the squad without any question, and I have no doubt he'd prove himself to be far better than his rivals for a spot in the team if given the chance. Mings shouldn't be anywhere near the squad.

Can't argue with any of that.

Dunks exclusion, when looking at who gets picked ahead of him, is inexplicable. I can only think that maybe he somehow blotted his copybook in some way with Southgate when he did eventually get picked. Something that nobody outside the England setup knows about.

As you say, there really is no footballing justification. He's at least as good if not significantly better than several who seem to get picked automatically, even when in some cases they're barely even regularly involved at club level. Its baffling.

 

[Pintos]

Article in The Times today about Stones being eased out by Pep at City, who is looking for new centre backs.
Linked names:
Pau Torres (Villarreal)
Rúben Dias (Benfica)
Martin Skriniar (Inter)
Lewis Dunk (Brighton)

Link (paywall):
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...diola-searches-for-new-centre-backs-kztcxfp00

 

[Jim Van Winkle]

Edit: wrong thread

 

[vagabond]

Article in The Times today about Stones being eased out by Pep at City, who is looking for new centre backs.
Linked names:
Pau Torres (Villarreal)
Rúben Dias (Benfica)
Martin Skriniar (Inter)
Lewis Dunk (Brighton)

Link (paywall):
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...diola-searches-for-new-centre-backs-kztcxfp00

So Pep clearly rates him more than Southgate.

If Dunk goes to City I’m laying a grand down on him making the England squad for the Euros.