Why Does No One Trust The Club

[Simster]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but why it is people think the board have an evil underlying plan about Falmer. Why can they not be trusted?.

Why would a man who came in saved this club have an evil plan?

They said work starts in December. Even the contractor who is building the site said work will start in December, so why does no one trust what they say?

If by the middle of next year nothing has started, then you have the right to ask what's going on, but please keep the bloody faith off the field and on the field. And if by the middle of next year nothing has started I'm completely wrong.

Why is it deemed to be all the fault of cyncical fans for not trusting the board?

It's not that I don't trust them, I'm just fed up with various shit pieces of news being spun to sound like good news. Coupled with the piss poor appointment of Mickey "one trick pony" Adams at the expense of a bright up and coming manager without giving any sort of clue as to why it all went wrong. The fact that past it players have been re-signed, the same people defending the top brass over and over again. And the less said about the gissajob mentality being extended to Ian Hart, the better.

I guess I'm just fed up with the hypocrisy, the club-wide shit decisions being made and how we have to be told that yet another delay is in fact, GOOD news.

 

[countrygull]

While I think there are some fans who don't trust the club - and I cannot answer for them - I am in the group who raise an eyebrow at some of the things coming out of the club every now and again. For instance, Martin Perry saying the club is `immune` to the credit crunch. The club asking fans to petition Brighton council for what we're assured are `housekeeping` measures. Surely if we are being asked to write to the council in support of the measures, there must be some degree of controversy to them - otherwise why rally support? I do think the stadium will go ahead. But I think the club would be far happier if fans accepted everything it says with no questions asked - but questions need to be asked to ensure propriety and probity.

 

[Freddie Goodwin.]

I don't think there is any hidden agenda but there are obsticles which the club appear reluctant to share.

It's better to be straight but all we get our deadlines that pass without a comment and delays which are packaged as good news.

 

[Brovion]

I wouldn't say 'No one trusts the club', I think that's a bit too melodramatic. What has happened is that people are questioning the Board's decisions and announcements more and more. I've been posting on NSC since 1999 and I always used to think that the people who criticised Dick Knight and the Board either didn't have a clue, were doing it for a wind-up or had ludicrously high expectations of what we could achieve whilst playing at a small converted athletics ground whilst simultaneously fighting a major planning battle on about six different fronts.

Now I when I read posts like Simster's above I think, 'yeah, fair comment'. And having read Simster's posts for the last ten years I know he's not one of the 'usual suspects' who slag the club off at every opportunity.

 

[Knotty]

I wouldn't say 'No one trusts the club', I think that's a bit too melodramatic. What has happened is that people are questioning the Board's decisions and announcements more and more. I've been posting on NSC since 1999 and I always used to think that the people who criticised Dick Knight and the Board either didn't have a clue, were doing it for a wind-up or had ludicrously high expectations of what we could achieve whilst playing at a small converted athletics ground whilst simultaneously fighting a major planning battle on about six different fronts.

And some people still have ludicrously high expectations, we are still playing at a small converted athletics track and we are still dealing with the problems and aftermath of the major planning battle.

Seriously, what do you think DK should do to win back the confidence of those who think he has a sinister agenda for BHA and does not have the interests of the club at heart. Does he make everything more transparent by releasing details of board meetings and player negotiations? That would set a most unusual precedent for any business, but it might appease some people. On the other hand whatever was released on that score, some would choose to disbelieve it.

I am not disagreeing with you, I would just like to know if you think there is an ideal solution. Personally, I don't think there is.

 

[The Large One]

While I think there are some fans who don't trust the club - and I cannot answer for them - I am in the group who raise an eyebrow at some of the things coming out of the club every now and again. For instance, Martin Perry saying the club is `immune` to the credit crunch. The club asking fans to petition Brighton council for what we're assured are `housekeeping` measures. Surely if we are being asked to write to the council in support of the measures, there must be some degree of controversy to them - otherwise why rally support? I do think the stadium will go ahead. But I think the club would be far happier if fans accepted everything it says with no questions asked - but questions need to be asked to ensure propriety and probity.

And questions are asked - and as much as the club can, they answer them. The funding issue is, for one, something many people have concerns about, and I would like a fuller explanation as to how the project is 'immune from the credit crunch'.

Regarding the planning applications, there's not a great deal - from a planning point of view - particularly contentious about them. However, it always strengthens the club's case if it is seen within the Council that there is wide support for the application, especially from people within Brighton & Hove.

 

[Superphil]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but why it is people think the board have an evil underlying plan about Falmer. Why can they not be trusted?.

Why would a man who came in saved this club have an evil plan?

They said work starts in December. Even the contractor who is building the site said work will start in December, so why does no one trust what they say?

If by the middle of next year nothing has started, then you have the right to ask what's going on, but please keep the bloody faith off the field and on the field. And if by the middle of next year nothing has started I'm completely wrong.

Keep the faith Adrian. Remember, it is only about 10, maybe 20 people maximum, some of them post on here, who have the opinions of misstrust you speak of. The rest of us are trusting of the board to do the very best they can to ensure the new stadium is delivered. Imagine how they must feel when they have no choice but to delay things, and imagine how dissapointed they must be when they read the comments of a minority* who constantly question everything they say.

* Actually, they probably don't take a lot of notice of the minority becasue it is so very small.

:falmerspi

 

[Knotty]

But I think the club would be far happier if fans accepted everything it says with no questions asked - but questions need to be asked to ensure propriety and probity.

Any business would be happier if its customers didn't question everything it did. That's natural. Very few businesses ever get questioned about internal matters by their customers. Do Tesco's customers query employment decisions by the board or the process of building a new store?

We can ask all the questions we like but we don't have a right to have the answers - only the company's shareholders have that right. If we don't like what we hear we can do what Tesco's customers can do and withdraw our business.

On the other hand a football club could be deemed to be a unique sort of business and that its loyal fans have a spiritual shareholding which entitles them to know more of the company's internal affairs.

Frankly, I would hate to be the club chairman because whatever you do someone will criticise because they think they know better. If they really did know better, fair enough. If they didn't, I would find that intolerable.

 

[Simster]

I wouldn't say 'No one trusts the club', I think that's a bit too melodramatic. What has happened is that people are questioning the Board's decisions and announcements more and more. I've been posting on NSC since 1999 and I always used to think that the people who criticised Dick Knight and the Board either didn't have a clue, were doing it for a wind-up or had ludicrously high expectations of what we could achieve whilst playing at a small converted athletics ground whilst simultaneously fighting a major planning battle on about six different fronts.

Now I when I read posts like Simster's above I think, 'yeah, fair comment'. And having read Simster's posts for the last ten years I know he's not one of the 'usual suspects' who slag the club off at every opportunity.

Absolutely spot on. The happy days of Albion winning Sponsored NSC matches thanks to a hungry manager and Premiership striker in a temporary home having just returned to God's city seem a lifetime away now.

Why the hell should the people in charge be given an easy ride. MEDIOCRE best describes most things about the club these days, sadly.

 

[The Large One]

Absolutely spot on. The happy days of Albion winning Sponsored NSC matches thanks to a hungry manager and Premiership striker in a temporary home having just returned to God's city seem a lifetime away now.

Why the hell should the people in charge be given an easy ride. MEDIOCRE best describes most things about the club these days, sadly.

Are you referring to off the pitch as well as on the pitch?

If so, what's changed for you at boardroom level / merchandising / marketing / community etc?

 

[Everest]

Can I join in?

Thread title:
Why Does No One Trust The Club

Do you know for a fact that NO-ONE trusts the club? Not even DK or MP?

 

[Trufflehound]

Do you know for a fact that NO-ONE trusts the club? Not even DK or MP?

Dick Knight and Martin Perry (tail) plotting the downfall of BHAFC yesterday:

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

Because we live in an age when no-one or nothing is a victim of circumstance; it is an age of blame.

If something is not as we want it to be, and is not delivered exactly when we want it, then someone is automatically to blame and we have the right to criticise...criticise...and criticise... Reasons, evidence and circumstances do not matter, someone has to be at fault.

Ain't dat de troof!"

 

[Brovion]

And some people still have ludicrously high expectations, we are still playing at a small converted athletics track and we are still dealing with the problems and aftermath of the major planning battle.

Seriously, what do you think DK should do to win back the confidence of those who think he has a sinister agenda for BHA and does not have the interests of the club at heart. Does he make everything more transparent by releasing details of board meetings and player negotiations? That would set a most unusual precedent for any business, but it might appease some people. On the other hand whatever was released on that score, some would choose to disbelieve it.

I am not disagreeing with you, I would just like to know if you think there is an ideal solution. Personally, I don't think there is.

Woah! I didn't say he had a 'sinister agenda'! The thread title was 'why does no one trust the club' which by definition implied we all distrusted the club! I thought that was a little OTT.

Firstly I still have nothing but admiration for what has been achieved over the last eleven years. Just to recap (although you know the story) the club was saved from extinction and kept going in exile in Gillingham whilst a campaign was waged to get us back to Brighton. When permission to come back was granted Withdean athletics stadium had to be turned into something that could losely be called a League football ground. At the same time the lengthy campaign to get us a new permanent ground in an AONB had to be fought. Ultimately this was all done successfully and now there is 'simply' the tiny matter of building the new ground. As well as doing all this we managed to build a team on the pitch that won back-to-back championships and got us into the second tier of English football. And to prove it wasn't a one-off fluke another manager did it with a re-built team. All in front of crowds of 6,7000 with money flowing out in rent, etc.

That is a staggering achievement, far greater than someone like Chelsea buying the Premiership with foreign billions. BUT, and it is very hard to say this without sounding terminally ungrateful, what has happened recently? Firstly we've had the delays over Falmer. TBH I'm not too fussed about those as I appreciate it's not the club's fault, but the slippage of the timescales is not good news no matter how it's presented. Secondly the ticketing arrangements. Why is it so hard to buy tickets and why are they so expensive? I know we've had this debate before and we don't agree so I'll just say that in my opinion I think the club's ticket ordering and distibution systems are two-bob and stuck in the 1970s. I also think they should be more price-sensitive and market-driven. Like I say, I know you and others don't agree.

Finally, and this for me is the big one: 'Wilkinsgate'. No, of course I don't think the club should wash all its linen, dirty or otherwise, in public, but look at it from our point of view: here was our own home-grown manager at the end of his first FULL season in management. No he wasn't a tactical genius, yes he made mistakes on (and apparently off) the pitch, but he appeared to have the club moving in the right direction and like Gordon Strachan before him he was learning in the job. The general view among my friends was that because Brighton were a club operating in straightened circumstances we were lucky to have him and lucky to have the young players he produced.

Then all of a sudden he's gone. Why? We don't know. We've heard the rumours, initially that he was sacked over 'Hammondgate' (sorry for all the gates!) and his lack of man-management skills. Now we've been hearing that apparently it was because 'someone' wanted a bigger name to bring the crowds back!

I'm sorry, and again I can only speak for myself, but both those reasons are complete BOLLOCKS. If the first one is true then the club should have looked at it's internal structure and perhaps the role of the Director of Football. Who was managing Wilkins? If the second one is true ... Well if they'd appointed Morhino then fair enough but Mickey Adams? And this debate is going to go on and on and on until one of two things happens: we find out THE TRUTH (copyright bhadeb) or we start winning and everybody forgets all about it. You don't have to be Mystic Meg to work out which one the club hierarchy want.

So the events of the summer have left me looking at the board with far more critical eyes. I no longer 'trust' them to always make the right decisions.

 

[Knotty]

Woah! I didn't say he had a 'sinister agenda'! The thread title was 'why does no one trust the club' which by definition implied we all distrusted the club! I thought that was a little OTT.

Firstly I still have nothing but admiration for what has been achieved over the last eleven years. Just to recap (although you know the story) the club was saved from extinction and kept going in exile in Gillingham whilst a campaign was waged to get us back to Brighton. When permission to come back was granted Withdean athletics stadium had to be turned into something that could losely be called a League football ground. At the same time the lengthy campaign to get us a new permanent ground in an AONB had to be fought. Ultimately this was all done successfully and now there is 'simply' the tiny matter of building the new ground. As well as doing all this we managed to build a team on the pitch that won back-to-back championships and got us into the second tier of English football. And to prove it wasn't a one-off fluke another manager did it with a re-built team. All in front of crowds of 6,7000 with money flowing out in rent, etc.

That is a staggering achievement, far greater than someone like Chelsea buying the Premiership with foreign billions. BUT, and it is very hard to say this without sounding terminally ungrateful, what has happened recently? Firstly we've had the delays over Falmer. TBH I'm not too fussed about those as I appreciate it's not the club's fault, but the slippage of the timescales is not good news no matter how it's presented. Secondly the ticketing arrangements. Why is it so hard to buy tickets and why are they so expensive? I know we've had this debate before and we don't agree so I'll just say that in my opinion I think the club's ticket ordering and distibution systems are two-bob and stuck in the 1970s. I also think they should be more price-sensitive and market-driven. Like I say, I know you and others don't agree.

Finally, and this for me is the big one: 'Wilkinsgate'. No, of course I don't think the club should wash all its linen, dirty or otherwise, in public, but look at it from our point of view: here was our own home-grown manager at the end of his first FULL season in management. No he wasn't a tactical genius, yes he made mistakes on (and apparently off) the pitch, but he appeared to have the club moving in the right direction and like Gordon Strachan before him he was learning in the job. The general view among my friends was that because Brighton were a club operating in straightened circumstances we were lucky to have him and lucky to have the young players he produced.

Then all of a sudden he's gone. Why? We don't know. We've heard the rumours, initially that he was sacked over 'Hammondgate' (sorry for all the gates!) and his lack of man-management skills. Now we've been hearing that apparently it was because 'someone' wanted a bigger name to bring the crowds back!

I'm sorry, and again I can only speak for myself, but both those reasons are complete BOLLOCKS. If the first one is true then the club should have looked at it's internal structure and perhaps the role of the Director of Football. Who was managing Wilkins? If the second one is true ... Well if they'd appointed Morhino then fair enough but Mickey Adams? And this debate is going to go on and on and on until one of two things happens: we find out THE TRUTH (copyright bhadeb) or we start winning and everybody forgets all about it. You don't have to be Mystic Meg to work out which one the club hierarchy want.

So the events of the summer have left me looking at the board with far more critical eyes. I no longer 'trust' them to always make the right decisions.

Sorry, mate, I was not accusing you of anything and I agree with the vast majority of what you say. I do accuse others of having unreasonable expectations of the board and the information they do or don't make public.

My question to you, although not well put, is what do you think the board should do appease those who want them to divulge more of what goes on?

Is there a board that has ever ALWAYS made the right decisions? I see your point on ticketing and agree with most, if not all, of it. In the past I have had serious issues with ticket allocations policies for big away matches and when we get another, I wonder if those issues have been resolved?

I trust the board to do everything they can in the best interests of the club but in the knowledge that they will make the wrong decision now and again. (Is there a football club in the country that hasn't, at some time, made the wrong decision on appointing a manager?) My criticism of some is that they seem to think that there is something sinister behind those decisions and they are someohow trying to undermine the club.

 

[clapham_gull]

Finally, and this for me is the big one: 'Wilkinsgate'. No, of course I don't think the club should wash all its linen, dirty or otherwise, in public, but look at it from our point of view: here was our own home-grown manager at the end of his first FULL season in management. No he wasn't a tactical genius, yes he made mistakes on (and apparently off) the pitch, but he appeared to have the club moving in the right direction and like Gordon Strachan before him he was learning in the job. The general view among my friends was that because Brighton were a club operating in straightened circumstances we were lucky to have him and lucky to have the young players he produced.

Then all of a sudden he's gone. Why? We don't know. We've heard the rumours, initially that he was sacked over 'Hammondgate' (sorry for all the gates!) and his lack of man-management skills. Now we've been hearing that apparently it was because 'someone' wanted a bigger name to bring the crowds back!

I'm sorry, and again I can only speak for myself, but both those reasons are complete BOLLOCKS. If the first one is true then the club should have looked at it's internal structure and perhaps the role of the Director of Football. Who was managing Wilkins? If the second one is true ... Well if they'd appointed Morhino then fair enough but Mickey Adams? And this debate is going to go on and on and on until one of two things happens: we find out THE TRUTH (copyright bhadeb) or we start winning and everybody forgets all about it. You don't have to be Mystic Meg to work out which one the club hierarchy want.

So the events of the summer have left me looking at the board with far more critical eyes. I no longer 'trust' them to always make the right decisions.

As much as I'd like to, I find it hard to disagree with a word of the above.

 

[mona]

To answer the original question, I think so many fans were taken in by Stanley in the 1990s that there is a tendency to be suspicious. Lets not forget that Stanley pulled off the ultimate con trick by actually getting Albion fans to campaign for planning permission to build on the Goldstone. He did so by a spurious story about using the planning permission to get bigger loans to re-finance the club. Stanley then managed to let Bellotti and Archer take all the flak. Even Bellotti managed to take in a lot of Albion fans at first. IMO this is why there is so much cynicism about. It is a reaction against past gullibility.

 

[The Gem]

To answer the original question, I think so many fans were taken in by Stanley in the 1990s that there is a tendency to be suspicious. Lets not forget that Stanley pulled off the ultimate con trick by actually getting Albion fans to campaign for planning permission to build on the Goldstone. He did so by a spurious story about using the planning permission to get bigger loans to re-finance the club. Stanley then managed to let Bellotti and Archer take all the flak. Even Bellotti managed to take in a lot of Albion fans at first. IMO this is why there is so much cynicism about. It is a reaction against past gullibility.

Totally agree wit the above.

I remember standing on the terrace at Rotherham just after Brady was appointed when Bellotti (Or Kn0b) used to walk around the terraces and chat with the fans before the game. I even shook his hand on what a great job he had done on signing Brady.

Codner scored the winner BTW.

A few years later I would have spat on him the next time I saw him.

However the point Im making is at the time we all trusted the board and thought they had the club and fans best interest at heart.

How wrong we were......That was like saying the Titanic is unsinkable.

Lessons were and still are being learnt.

Not getting into the ground for another 3 or so years is a complete joke. Forget whos fault it is, it is just a joke and one that were all bored and tired with now IMHO!!!!

BTW it great to be back

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Its a long time ago i recall maybe 3 years or so,but pretty sure it was a board error and a very small one.

Absolutely UNTRUE.

 

[Beach Hut]

I blame Red Wedge and all the lefties for the Falmer cock up - stand up and own up all of you NOW